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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Top finishers in Brooklyn half non-binary division all male

64 replies

Misstache · 21/05/2023 10:20

Surprise, surprise! The non-binary division offered equal prize money to the other categories. The men’s race was won in 1:03. Womens’ race won in 1:11. Non-binary top 3 men: 1:12:05, 1:17:56, 1:19:47. 1:12:05 would be 41st in the male division, 1:17:56 would be 182. Mediocre men now get the same money as elite women by calling themselves NB.

OP posts:
PatatiPatatras · 21/05/2023 12:27

We're just reinventing the wheel. It's a division 1 and 2 type thing isn't it? There just needs to be more opportunity for prize money but shame on those who try to steal instead of advocating for more opportunities.

PerkingFaintly · 21/05/2023 12:31

lanadelgrey · 21/05/2023 10:29

Fabulous, a bit of a pita to be endured for a few short years as more people realise what this means for female runners

This.

I think what they've done is brilliant. Give it a few years and...

PerkingFaintly · 21/05/2023 12:38

Justme56 · 21/05/2023 10:57

It is a load of rubbish really isn’t it. There was a jokey post on twitter the other day asking if there should be some medical research into why AMAB NB’s run slower than other men as it appears there is definitely a problem.

Yes, doubtless it will also spawn some tedious nonsense trying to jumble cause and effect.

It's great that this is something as measurable and non-interactive as running, where one is essentially competing against oneself. There will be good data about the times achieved by AMAB before they identified into the non-Binary category.

Chersfrozenface · 21/05/2023 12:47

The positive I would take from this is that the women's race is at least being run by women.

That depends.

If men who say they are women can run in the women's race, that isn't the case.

Remember, as lot of trans people don't identify as NB, they identify as the other sex. That's what transsexual / transgender originally meant, and still does to some

How do race organisers check what biological sex a competitor is? Check ID documents? But they may not have a sex marker, or the holder may have had the marker changed.

Chersfrozenface · 21/05/2023 12:48

Sorry, meant to bold the quote in the first paragraph.

SinnerBoy · 21/05/2023 12:54

Datun · Today 11:20

And then other genders to kick off, and they get themselves tied up in a knot of such wokeness, they disappear up their own virtue.

Well, I've never heard it called that before!

INamechangedForThisMadness · 21/05/2023 12:55

BBNoM · 21/05/2023 11:27

This is the Instagram account of the bloke who came second in the non binary category.

www.instagram.com/jacobcaswell/?hl=en

The whole thing is a sham.

I don't know much about flouncy women's clothing, but is that beige stripy item on backwards? Shouldn't the zip and bit across the neck be at the back?

Is is that a style choice? A 'queering' of the fashion industry. Or something?

INamechangedForThisMadness · 21/05/2023 13:00

On the actual topic: I can see a 'need' for an AFAB-NB category - I don't know if there is drug testing but females taking testosterone may not be able to compete in the female category.

But males suppressing testosterone can legitimately compete in the male category (but not in female, still having higher testosterone as well as the lifetime benefits of it on development).

So, yes to an AFAB+T category, maybe? But then we could get into a right rabbit hole of various interventions etc.

GrabbyGabby · 21/05/2023 13:04

Misstache · 21/05/2023 10:42

These men haven’t even changed their names - they’re literally just men. It may be better than running in the women’a category, but why should men get a whole other category? Now we have men, women’s (also men’s), and non-binary (men.) Mediocre men can choose two extra categories to win in depending on how much effort they want to put into changing their bodies/identities. Women are over in women’s where we can be beaten by men. A woman training at an elite level to be at the top of her category gets the same prize money as a man who wouldn’t be 100th in his. And of course, biological men are always faster even though people keep trying to tell us women just need to run faster and try harder.

This is an excellent post.

JanesLittleGirl · 21/05/2023 13:06

The reductio ad absurdum conclusion would be to have a separate category for each individual. Then everyone will be a winner and all shall have prizes.

quiteathome · 21/05/2023 13:14

How long before a lot of men just go into the non binary category to get prize money. Therefore just filling it up for a while. Once they don't get any benefit it will probably just fizzle out

quiteathome · 21/05/2023 13:15

Or they will just identify into the women's race. And just ruin everything

FrancescaContini · 21/05/2023 13:20

I’m not a runner but I’m laughing at the idea that these people call themselves NB but we still know their sex…

At least they’re not pretending to be female, I suppose.

ApocalipstickNow · 21/05/2023 13:25

EmpressaurusOfCats · 21/05/2023 11:31

They could have a furries category. Although if some of them wanted to run on all fours it might be awkward.

I for one wish them luck against the cis cheetahs.

ApocalipstickNow · 21/05/2023 13:26

quiteathome · 21/05/2023 13:14

How long before a lot of men just go into the non binary category to get prize money. Therefore just filling it up for a while. Once they don't get any benefit it will probably just fizzle out

You mean that’s not already happening?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/05/2023 13:26
Grin
literalviolence · 21/05/2023 13:39

Helleofabore · 21/05/2023 11:10

I suspect you are right.

or. A female athlete will take them to court because there needs to be a NB male and NB female for the opportunities for NB female to win fairly.

It really is a discrimination case now. It needs to be tested. However the outcome is that there is double the opportunity for male athletes to win and win money!

Show quote history

I have no sympathy for the afab nbs. They bought into the idea that sport is about identity not body so can either live with the consequences or move to an actual scientific understanding - which would mean campaigning for sports segregated by biological sex and no other categories.

Shelefttheweb · 21/05/2023 13:44

marshmallowmatcha · 21/05/2023 10:29

Isn't this OK though? They aren't taking the women's spaces?

Three prize pools available to men and none for women should a man decide yo race due to the inherent male advantage? No it is not ok.

MagpiePi · 21/05/2023 13:56

I expect that NB categories will only get dropped because men who entered as men will realise they are missing out on prize money and complain. Although it may go through a period where the NB men will then identify as women, so then there will be 3 lots of prize money being won by men.

The fact that women will be disadvantaged is irrelevant. 🙄

NecessaryScene · 21/05/2023 14:03

The fact that women will be disadvantaged is irrelevant.

Yeah, I think this is one of the ones that will fall out of fashion quite fast, because it's obviously unfair to other men.

(My favourite other example of this is those rowing rules that permit men to compete in the women's events, but not to take a woman's place in a mixed-sex event.)

Beamur · 21/05/2023 14:26

Chersfrozenface · 21/05/2023 12:48

Sorry, meant to bold the quote in the first paragraph.

Yep. Agree but I was mostly being hopeful 😁
As a category, women's means little if it includes men because then the chaps would have 3 categories they could enter!

Original poster
Misstache · 21/05/2023 15:59

15 women and 181 men ran faster than Jacob yet there he is on his Instagram flouncing around as a winner of the race. Infuriating.

OP posts:
TheBiologyStupid · 21/05/2023 16:22

Misstache · 21/05/2023 10:46

And it also reinforces the idea that sports divisions are about identity. When we accept the idea of a non-binary division we are accepting the idea that your personal identity is relevant to sports competition. We don’t have categories for “Asian women,” or “mothers” or “immigrant.” What’s relevant is your sex. These men can identify as NB and run with the men. Accepting this division is part of eroding sex-based sports by pretending your gender identity matters: it exists as a partner to pushing men into womens’ sports as well.

Absolutely!

Delphinium20 · 21/05/2023 16:26

Misstache · 21/05/2023 15:59

15 women and 181 men ran faster than Jacob yet there he is on his Instagram flouncing around as a winner of the race. Infuriating.

Exactly. Jacob is just an all around douchebag.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 21/05/2023 16:30

https://www.instagram.com/p/CfUssV5FUKr/?hl=en

I think this is the best self posted picture of Jacob.

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/CfUssV5FUKr/?hl=en