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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Carrie Grant: I no longer have three daughters.

106 replies

MalagaNights · 20/05/2023 09:09

Has anyone read this today?

I'm not sure what to think. They have obviously had such a terrible time with their daughters mental health needs, 2 of them are autistic and all three identify as Trans.

Carrie accepts this as part of 'who they are' which in some ways is understandable as they obviously hope this will relieve ongoing mental health difficulties.

They also have an adopted son who required security guards at home because he was so violent.

So they've obviously been through so much and just want their children to be stable and happy.

But there seems to be many unspoken questions this pattern of all 3 girls being Trans raises.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12104609/Carrie-David-Grants-soul-baring-account-parenting.html

Carrie and David Grant's soul-baring account of parenting

Where once this couple had three daughters, now they have Olive, who is non-binary (and prefers to be known as 'they'); Tylan (who uses 'he/him' pronouns), and Arlo ('he/they').

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12104609/Carrie-David-Grants-soul-baring-account-parenting.html

OP posts:
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Unsure33 · 20/05/2023 13:33

One is getting top surgery 😢 I hope they speak to some detransioners before going ahead . It’s so sad .

Unsure33 · 20/05/2023 13:37

Messyhair321 · 20/05/2023 12:24

Actually I have a similar situation, preparing to be flamed...my DC (actually 30 y/o) was very unwell with an eating disorder for many years, most people don't know unless they have experienced this at its worst, how much it destroys people and families. This went on for many years, we were in and out of hospital, ED units, near death several times.

And so then after 10 years of this, my then DD decides that she wishes to live as a man, unsupported by anyone but us and the GP we decided we had to do this, because in any case things were so bad it literally could not get any worse.

So actually this was several years ago, and I am sure that this transition saved his life actually. Its easy to judge but when you are a parent and are in it, you would do anything to help your child survive.
Current situation, things are good

With all due respect no one has a problem with people living as the opposite sex or how they dress or who they sleep with . It Is the drugs and the surgery that worry people most and selling the belief you can actually change sex .

Grimbelina · 20/05/2023 13:58

Nonylonneeded we have an EHCP for a child who is an extraordinary masker. We didn't have to go to appeal, tribunal etc. either.

However, I think it may depend on where you live, how much (and the quality of your) supporting evidence and also, I suspect (and this was hinted at by someone who works for a council in this area), how they perceive the parents and whether they think you have the resources to pursue it through the courts. All of which is pretty shocking as it really isn't a level playing field.

willWillSmithsmith · 20/05/2023 14:23

Unsure33 · 20/05/2023 13:33

One is getting top surgery 😢 I hope they speak to some detransioners before going ahead . It’s so sad .

It’s done. It was done last month. 🙁

dottiedodah · 20/05/2023 14:36

Firstly having read this article, I feel sorry for them both and the challenges they have faced as a family .However successful they have been ,it must be incredibly hard for them .Holding a mirror up to their daily lives is very brave .Maybe other families going through similar issues ,would find it helpful as well. Carrie seemed to have lead a sheltered life and was maybe unaware of how challenging life would be. One part where she is choosing childrens gentle names meaning butterfly or similar was very poignant .

AspiringChatBot · 20/05/2023 15:48

Brisland · 20/05/2023 11:19

I am positive this family is cyclically in the media - a bigger story/update comes out regularly with new updates.

I only hope all 4 children and parents are receiving the appropriate mental health care.

Indeed: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4347023-The-broadcaster-Carrie-Grant-and-her-presenter-husband-once-had-three-daughters-Now-she-is-the-only-female?reply=110737080

I appreciate that there are costs to four people in the same family transitioning roughly at once, but I hope the children don't end up regretting their parents' choices about how to "make a buck".

Whatsnewpussyhat · 20/05/2023 16:35

What I'm sure about is plastering their children all over the media doesn't help them

Nope, those kids become poster children for gender ideology with no return route available

DerekFaker · 20/05/2023 17:34

Who ARE these people?

Shelefttheweb · 20/05/2023 18:09

Why would you adopt a fourth child if you had 3 with a range of significant issues.

Why was she allowed to adopt when her three children had such significant issues?

Shelefttheweb · 20/05/2023 18:26

You can get specialist residential accommodation without an EHCP - I know because they don’t exist in Scotland and I know children on specialist residential placements, including in England. The problem generally is persuading the council to pay for it - these specialist placements cost from £100k per year up to £250k or more. There are few even wealthy families that could afford it and I don’t think even the grants are in that category.

Backstreets · 20/05/2023 18:49

Bloody hell.
What a depressing read. Especially the young woman getting a double mastectomy and the violent, traumatised adoptee.

PermanentTemporary · 20/05/2023 19:04

@Messyhair321 to have reached a point where things are good is just so good to hear.

I hope I hope that things continue that way, and that if transition has helped, that it goes on doing so.

DysonSpheres · 20/05/2023 19:17

willWillSmithsmith · 20/05/2023 14:23

It’s done. It was done last month. 🙁

How old was the child when it was done? To allow that is negligent parenting in my opinion.

candlelighter · 20/05/2023 19:18

A family who is clearly in a great deal of need. A concern.

DemiColon · 20/05/2023 19:26

Why would you adopt a fourth child if you had 3 with a range of significant issues.

I knew a woman who did something like this. She had a several children with her husband and then went on to adopt a number of other children, some with extremely significant needs that will be life-long.

I don't doubt that she loved them, but it always seemed rather manic, and reminded me a bit of animal hoarders who think see themselves as rescuers. Her home was always very clean and everyone well cared for because she also was quite extreme about cleaning and organizing.

She burned out in the end and pretty much disappeared and left the father with the children, luckily by then the youngest was 12 so he wasn't totally overwhelmed.

MalagaNights · 20/05/2023 19:37

I have sympathy and understanding with them, that like @Messyhair321 if you have a child with severe mental health difficulties being Trans might seem like the least of your issues or even a relief if it seems to help.

But I'm also thinking about the social environment & type of parenting approaches that might lead 3 of your children to become Trans.

I'm increasingly thinking about how the parenting culture is more child led, focused on child voice, encouraging expression and finding your real self unencumbered by expectation, & parents accepting whatever this is. As if this is positive.

I suspect Carrie is this type of person. Even her Christianity is the radical unconditional love type.

But what does this do to children? In terms of their mental health which Trans occurs as a symptom of?

When children don't have expectations set for their behaviour and the roles they should play across their life, but they are encouraged to create this sense of who they are from their feelings without any constraint, what does this do?

It requires extensive focus & rumination on the self and attending to all feelings as important indicators. From this you have to create who you 'really' are. All feelings are validated as if they are reasonable and real and decisions are made on these passing feelings.

I think this creates an unboundaried open ended array of decisions and possibilities for young people and this in itself creates anxiety and to being overwhelmed by life.

Young people need adults who communicate an order to the world: roles you should play, your place in the world, how you should be in them, things they value, that some ways of living are better than others, the type of life they envision for you.

This then provides a structure within which to explore yourself. For some the boundaries placed will be too restrictive and we need to find ways to include those people but if we had clearer boundaries I think there would be fewer of those people.

Carrie Grant's family has made me think about how we are creating a mental health crisis as much as anything.

Of course parents can't isolate their children from the culture and any child is susceptible to these identity absorptions which undermine mental health.

I just think those children who have parents who throughout those difficulties still maintain some boundaries for them to push against: no your are not my son, no you can't change sex, I won't say things that aren't true, I don't think this is a good thing, have a much better chance of finding a way out of the ideology than those who go total full support.

I wonder if what Carrie has done here is an abdication of the parental boundaries needed over time. And in my opinion she continues to seem to be doing it.

OP posts:
kkneat · 20/05/2023 19:47

This is very worrying. I’ve seen Carrie speak before about her children & she talks as though she is a professional not a parent. I don’t know what David thinks. I think adult social care need to intervene with their biological children.
In extreme circumstances social services will pay for support workers I’m the home for children, they will be trained in managing behaviour if there is not suitable placement (not security guards).

ArcticSkewer · 20/05/2023 19:49

Presumably one or both parents are also on the spectrum? I don't know who this family is, but they sound quite chaotic and to be making many poor life choices

PermanentTemporary · 20/05/2023 19:58

I certainly think that publishing pictures of the children is incredibly damaging and the DM shouldn't have done it; incredible that the parents thought that was ok.

Messyhair321 · 20/05/2023 20:09

CouldIHaveThatInEnglishPlease · 20/05/2023 12:47

I have huge empathy for parents who are trying to navigate life with children with any form of mental health issue (including eating disorders and gender dysmorphia). As a secondary school teacher I see these issues day in, day out, a lot of it linked to peers, puberty and social media etc, and I see how hard it can be and how you just do whatever you can to make it through.
but to have 4 children who ALL have severe mental health issues, you do have to begin to question whether the problem lies in the home, because that is not normal. Something has gone very very wrong.

Possibly, but some kids are extremely damaged just being in school systems & that can also be hugely damaging. Having said that, I doubt Carrie Grant's children have ever stepped foot in a mainstream school! Sounds like something has imploded within the environment & genetics might also play a part

DemiColon · 20/05/2023 20:15

MalagaNights · 20/05/2023 19:37

I have sympathy and understanding with them, that like @Messyhair321 if you have a child with severe mental health difficulties being Trans might seem like the least of your issues or even a relief if it seems to help.

But I'm also thinking about the social environment & type of parenting approaches that might lead 3 of your children to become Trans.

I'm increasingly thinking about how the parenting culture is more child led, focused on child voice, encouraging expression and finding your real self unencumbered by expectation, & parents accepting whatever this is. As if this is positive.

I suspect Carrie is this type of person. Even her Christianity is the radical unconditional love type.

But what does this do to children? In terms of their mental health which Trans occurs as a symptom of?

When children don't have expectations set for their behaviour and the roles they should play across their life, but they are encouraged to create this sense of who they are from their feelings without any constraint, what does this do?

It requires extensive focus & rumination on the self and attending to all feelings as important indicators. From this you have to create who you 'really' are. All feelings are validated as if they are reasonable and real and decisions are made on these passing feelings.

I think this creates an unboundaried open ended array of decisions and possibilities for young people and this in itself creates anxiety and to being overwhelmed by life.

Young people need adults who communicate an order to the world: roles you should play, your place in the world, how you should be in them, things they value, that some ways of living are better than others, the type of life they envision for you.

This then provides a structure within which to explore yourself. For some the boundaries placed will be too restrictive and we need to find ways to include those people but if we had clearer boundaries I think there would be fewer of those people.

Carrie Grant's family has made me think about how we are creating a mental health crisis as much as anything.

Of course parents can't isolate their children from the culture and any child is susceptible to these identity absorptions which undermine mental health.

I just think those children who have parents who throughout those difficulties still maintain some boundaries for them to push against: no your are not my son, no you can't change sex, I won't say things that aren't true, I don't think this is a good thing, have a much better chance of finding a way out of the ideology than those who go total full support.

I wonder if what Carrie has done here is an abdication of the parental boundaries needed over time. And in my opinion she continues to seem to be doing it.

I think this is a very insightful post.

I have in the past noticed that a lot of kids who have these difficulties around gender seem to have parents who were very proactive about flouting any gender-norms in their parenting.

Sometimes that seems rather backwatds, if gender expectations lead to kids trying to escape them - which is why some seem to think that we will get over gender ideology by getting rid of cultural elements of gender.

But actually that doesn't seem to be the pattern in many cases. It's more like lack of cultural gender markers in their lives leaves kids without the ability to build a mental picture of sex, and how it relates to culture, and the eventual ability to see where that's an artificiality or arbitrary.

Messyhair321 · 20/05/2023 20:16

PermanentTemporary · 20/05/2023 19:04

@Messyhair321 to have reached a point where things are good is just so good to hear.

I hope I hope that things continue that way, and that if transition has helped, that it goes on doing so.

Yes certainly helped a lot - I'd say it saves his life, sounds dramatic but I really didn't expect him to live until he was 30. Yet here he is, normal weight & definitely living a better life.

EmmatheStageRat · 20/05/2023 20:23

Backstreets · 20/05/2023 18:49

Bloody hell.
What a depressing read. Especially the young woman getting a double mastectomy and the violent, traumatised adoptee.

Not to minimise at all, but as the parent of a violent, traumatised adoptive teen, who is still living at home and not in a residential unit (and another adopted child), both of whom have significant disabilities, I am still agog from reading last week’s article in The Times about their local authority funding private security guards. I’m on a waiting list (after about 18 months) to be allocated an adoption support worker. My teen’s placement is on the precipice. Oh to be rich and famous.

Shelefttheweb · 20/05/2023 20:29

kkneat · 20/05/2023 19:47

This is very worrying. I’ve seen Carrie speak before about her children & she talks as though she is a professional not a parent. I don’t know what David thinks. I think adult social care need to intervene with their biological children.
In extreme circumstances social services will pay for support workers I’m the home for children, they will be trained in managing behaviour if there is not suitable placement (not security guards).

Sadly much social work if fully immersed in trans ideology.

MajesticWhine · 20/05/2023 20:53

The one that had top surgery is 21, so would not need parental consent.
It's a troubling story. What makes it so impossible for these girls to exist as girls? And was the adoption of the very troubled little boy the root cause of the transing of the three girls.
I wish them all well, but I won't be reading the parenting book.