BBC on gov guidance for schools - points that need to be considered

[Hagosaurus]

BBC article on gov guidelines for how to treat transgender pupils in school

Generally balanced article including input from Tanya Carter, highlighting the difficulties teachers are facing and including the issues around informing parents, changing rooms and toilets, although not pronouns.

One thing mentioned by the school used to illustrate the article was that trans(umbrella term!) children are allowed to change for PE in a private area - not clear whether that’s a third communal space or, more likely, individual changing cubicles. I know my dd would jump at the chance to have a private changing space, and would be perfectly happy to declare herself trans/NB/a dragon to access it. There was also a question at the end about whether schools would get extra funding to support trans children.

It is really important imo that the guidance ensures that, whatever support is offered, it does not (inadvertently?) offer inducements to children to transition or to schools to encourage transition

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-65473198

Came to post this - Good point. Offering third spaces also could encourage those who find changing for pe stressful to use them by id as trans. At the same time it's the only way to make sure girls are protected.

There needs to be better honest teaching about sex v gender (for the teachers too Ffs!)

Genspect suggested that a public health campaign on the dangers of cross sex hormones and pbs could help kill some if the trend. I feel that message should be ensconced in educational safeguarding documents.

A report into gender-identity services in England says socially transitioning may have significant psychological effects - and better information is needed about its outcomes. (Cass)

This is a woolly statement - needed to be clarified as the report it links to doesn't

And 39% of the secondary teachers who responded said they would support this, regardless of parental consent. (social transition)

That's a worrying figure

And 39% of the secondary teachers who responded said they would support this, regardless of parental consent. (social transition)

Presumably most of those would also disregard guidance too. I wonder how/if it will be communicated to staff? I expect that will depend very much on each headteacher's personal stance.

I hope that someone tells them that they will be personally liable when those kids grow up and start sueing people and by the parents for removing their parental rights without a court order.
I know that when I pointed this out to the rector and the activist teacher at my DS's school who was targeting all the asd kids in his school it put an immediate end to all the rainbow clubs and groups and the teacher in question is not allowed to work with the DAS

I was pleased with this article, thought it was nicely balanced although yes the 39% willing to abandon all safeguarding principles and keep secrets from parents is worrying.

From the anecdata I've read on here, 10-20 "trans" children out of 1200 sounds low though?

This was featured on R4 this morning (around 07:15).

Justin Webb asked some excellent questions to someone from the Association of school and college leaders. She was obviously wary of saying the wrong thing, but did clearly lay out the practical issues (sports, changing rooms, overnight trips).

This has just been mentioned on R4, it’s second on their news headlines.

There do seem to be schools and even areas where it's much more common.

Anecdotally, areas of the north east where I am don't seem to have had quite the same level of numbers that areas in the south have till recently.

short article on R5 too, Rachel Burden asking some pertinent questions while still giving school rep plenty of space to speak

Warrior I completely agree girls need to be protected, genuinely think schools should manage toilets & changing on the basis of same sex bodies. No solution is ideal, and I think this is probably the fairest, safest approach.

It's on the 6 Music news bulletins as well, quite low down the running order but decent time given.
Re: the safeguarding aspect, a very TWAW person I know has been through safeguarding training and is adamant that safeguarding means teachers not telling parents if kids talk about being trans, because their parents might react in a hostile or violent way and safeguarding is about first and foremost protecting the child. I think this is bullshit but am still formulating my thinking as to why.

Yes that seems to be the prevailing idea. There's no specific guidance in safeguarding documentation- but there is around peer on peer abuse. Including transphobia. So they translate that as these children need protection including from parents

Why are teachers helping kids lead parallel lives at school if they declare a trans identity? It's not safeguarding if all the other kids and teachers are colluding in keeping the secret from the actual parents.

Some of the stories in the media of parents finding out by accident, through school gates conversations, or through letters accidentally referencing the child's trans name, are heartbreaking.

It's bullshit because:

1. Only the courts can remove parental rights - the parents of children in care still retain parental rights and remain involved / have to give consent for issues relating to their child.
2. It's a hostile, disrespectful approach to parents and places them in the position of being bigots / transphobes .
3. It removes this (ironically very vulnerable) group of children from core safeguarding principles - that schools refer concerns about children using safeguarding measures and that parents are always involved - even if they're the source of the problem.
4. It deskills teachers who are well used to dealing with self harm, eating disorders, anxiety etc by pretending that this group of children are so different that only certain types of "rainbow" adults are able to support them
5. All our national data shows that children in care / alienated from their families do terribly in terms of life chances - poor achievement, more likely to be involved with drugs, crime , homeless etc.

The level of harm that this is doing to children is off the scale.

Thank you, that's very clear. This particularly jumped out: 'parents are always involved - even if they're the source of the problem.' I had no idea.

Kids who spend a lot of time in certain internet spaces get repeatedly told (or another word I’m not allowed to use) into believing their parents are, by default, transphobic, homophobic bigots. Even if a child tells a teacher that their parents would react badly, there is no guarantee that that is the case. How do the teachers evidence their decision? Would teachers fail to tell parents that children were behaving badly/getting involved with gangs or drugs because the parents might react badly?

Surely, they share the information, and involve SS if they think there’s a real problem?!

There are exceptions of course - an allegation of parental sexual abuse would initially be dealt with "secretly". But when a child alleges they've been hit at home, many teachers have to contact the parent and tell them that they've referred to social services who will be be in touch.
Professionals need to work "in partnership" with parents. Children in abusive families rely on teachers having a "respectful" working relationship with their parents - they can spot worrying signs much better if they're in contact - it makes protecting children easier. Teachers know this stuff and can be brilliant at supporting neglectful parents. The idea that this ideology has been allowed to bin everything we know about children in order to be able to push this homophobic, misogynistic ideology at children in schools is unbelievable.

There's a good point made here about how the real story is buried deep in the article:

twitter.com/misssamsmith/status/1659424752774131712?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

And I agree with @MrsOvertonsWindow about safeguarding. I have a feeling when the full picture is known, in time, it'll show the children generally most at risk were (are currently) at either end of the spectrum. They'll be children in care and children in private schools. Plus ca change.

Kids who spend a lot of time in certain internet spaces get repeatedly told (or another word I’m not allowed to use) into believing their parents are, by default, transphobic, homophobic bigots.

The word Kids can be replaced by the word teachers here.

I've seen teachers and people who work with children in schools in RSE in online spaces (FB) proclaim the same.

It's a fucking shit show.

It's being discussed on the Jeremy Vine show on R2 right now.

Just jumping on this thread to say that Jeremy Vine is discussing this now on Radio 2. First speaker "Feminist and transwoman Katie Montgomerie" who claims that LGBT kids are at high risk of being abused by their families, so 'outing' them to their parents is extremely dangerous.

They also have a headteacher on, pushing back against the hyperbolic drama. But no parents.

Ah, sorry Chewbecca, you beat me to it!

Monty claiming this is both a monumentally sensitive, life or death issue, whilst also being no big deal and not important enough to tell parents.

Lol at the idea Montie is a feminist 😆😆 self identified maybe….