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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Tate transes Marlow Moss

62 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 18/05/2023 17:36

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12096405/Tate-gallery-changes-pronouns-late-British-artist-assuming-identified-trans.html

'Tate gallery changes the pronouns of celebrated British artist who died 60 YEARS AGO to become gender-neutral'

At first, I found only this interesting essay/biography on Moss:

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artists/marlow-moss-1671/essay

And then I found that the latest transing of Moss is actually on the Tate's kids' site:

https://www.tate.org.uk/kids/explore/who-is/who-marlow-moss

Quote:

'Wait - why did you say their voice? Was Marlow male, or female? Or neither?
The short answer? We’re not totally sure.'

Moss was female, you fucking lying bastards. They've erased a lesbian artist's sex.

Tate gallery changes pronouns of late British artist who died in 1958

Moss, who is credited for helping shape abstract art in Europe in the first half of the 20th century, has been described as a radical lesbian and changed her forename from Marjorie to Marlow in 1919.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12096405/Tate-gallery-changes-pronouns-late-British-artist-assuming-identified-trans.html

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MarkWithaC · 20/05/2023 10:59

What the fuck?!? How come the essay (as well as being very interesting and informative; I didn't know about MM) talks about 'her' and 'she' and 'adopting a masculine appearance', but the kids' section goes full 'they'?
I'm a Tate member. I've unfortunately recently paid my year's subscription, but I'm going to write and tell them I will not be renewing next year. I'm fucking furious about this.

ArabeIIaScott · 20/05/2023 11:29

Cynics might say children are more impressionable audiences.

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MarkWithaC · 25/05/2023 15:31

Got a reply to my email (from Tate 'main'; I also emailed the kids' section direct but it's still being considered by them, apparently.
The reply is pasted below. The word disingenuous is the most polite word that comes to mind.

'Hello Mark,

Thank you for emailing us with your concerns about the wording used to describe the artist Marlow Moss on the Tate Kids website.

We raise the issue of the artist's identity here as an interesting question to consider, not in an attempt to retrospectively assign any specific form of identity. Our interpretive material, whether in the galleries or online, is always kept under review and we appreciate our visitors' views as part of this process.

I have forwarded your comments to the Tate Kids Editorial team for their consideration.

Kind regards,
Adam Smith

Visitor Communications
Tate'

RoseslnTheHospital · 25/05/2023 15:42

That's weasel worded sly guff. They did more than just raise a question. They deliberately used "they/them" pronouns. And why just raise that particular question with children? And they should be aware as historians of applying modern concepts to historical situations, because that's just not how that works. For all they know, Marlow Moss might have been a raving t*rf and used the pronouns fuck/off.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 16:09

We raise the issue of the artist's identity here as an interesting question to consider, not in an attempt to retrospectively assign any specific form of identity.

Bollocks. They transed her.

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MarkWithaC · 25/05/2023 16:13

I know. They must think I'm an idiot.
I'm leaving it overnight so I'm suitably furious before I reply.

Iafontaine · 25/05/2023 17:18

wow that letter is dreadful. Also her pronouns are not up for fucking review!

MarkWithaC · 06/07/2023 08:55

In case anyone is interested, I replied to Tate Visitor Comms in early June (copy of email below). Have had no response, and have not heard a peep from Tate Kids.

‘Dear Adam
I've heard nothing from Tate Kids, so am copying them in here.

I find your response at best disingenuous. The article strenuously avoids using the words ’she’ or ‘her’; and it states that ‘We’re not totally sure’ of the answer to ‘Was Marlow Male, or Female? Or neither?’ None of this particularly accords with your claim that Tate isn’t making 'an attempt to retrospectively assign any specific form of identity’.

It would be perfectly possible to discuss issues of gender identity and its context – how Marlow Moss dressed and styled her hair, the fact that her name is not obviously a masculine or a feminine one, how society viewed/still views that etc – without using the meaningless ’they’ when discussing someone who was a woman, or saying – untruthfully – that no one is sure of her sex.

My decision not to renew my membership next year has not changed.

Thanks
MarkWithaC’

ArabeIIaScott · 06/07/2023 09:11

Good letter Mark.

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MarkWithaC · 06/07/2023 17:39

I'm wondering whether to politely chase them. But I'm not sure I want to read whatever nonsense they'll no doubt spout back if I do...

TheBiologyStupid · 06/07/2023 21:25

MarkWithaC · 06/07/2023 17:39

I'm wondering whether to politely chase them. But I'm not sure I want to read whatever nonsense they'll no doubt spout back if I do...

I think you should,if only to let them know that you haven't overlooked their rudeness.

Great username, btw - I love that meme.

MarkWithaC · 06/07/2023 21:41

TheBiologyStupid · 06/07/2023 21:25

I think you should,if only to let them know that you haven't overlooked their rudeness.

Great username, btw - I love that meme.

Yes, good point.
I know, it makes me giggle 😄

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