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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

40 Oxford dons sign letter in support of Kathleen Stock

150 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 17/05/2023 10:12

This seems pretty significant.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/16/free-speech-oxford-university-trans-row-kathleen-stock/

'Oxford dons have warned students that freedom of speech is at risk as a trans row engulfs the university.
More than 40 academics - including Prof Richard Dawkins, the evolutionary biologist, and Prof Nigel Biggar, the theologian - have intervened in support of a planned appearance at the Oxford Union by Prof Kathleen Stock, a leading feminist, in a letter to The Telegraph.'

...

Letter includes:

'“Professor Stock believes that biological sex in humans is real and socially salient, a view which until recently would have been so commonplace as to hardly merit asserting.
“Whether or not one agrees with Professor Stock’s views, there is no plausible and attractive ideal of academic freedom, or of free speech more generally, which would condemn their expression as outside the bounds of permissible discourse.”'

Free speech in peril as trans row engulfs Oxford University

In a letter to The Telegraph, dons warn against cancelling appearance by feminist Kathleen Stock over her gender-critical views

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/16/free-speech-oxford-university-trans-row-kathleen-stock

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/05/2023 14:14

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 13:58

I think this is the student, he is the leader of Oxford LGBT soc and wrote the original call to deplatform Kathleen Stock:

twitter.com/addihd02/status/1650623577513762824?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

He doesn’t know the difference between ‘emit’ and ‘omit’. 🙄

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 14:15

He, his boyfriend (at a different university) and his friends caused a massive Twitter storm after the Telegraph article was published because they felt they should have been able to write potentially defamatory claims about Kathleen Stock anonymously and they were hopping mad that the Telegraph named Amiad and his vice president.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 14:17

He must have some intelligence to get into Oxford, but on Twitter he doesn't come across as one of the world's great intellectuals.

Boomboom22 · 17/05/2023 14:19

This must be a disciplinary matter, I can't see Oxford letting him bring them.into such disrepute on radio 4 with no consequences.

loislovesstewie · 17/05/2023 14:20

He lost me at genderqueer. I mean what does that mean when we're at home?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 14:20

This piece was published in the Oxford Student newspaper last week

twitter.com/theoxstu/status/1657327802301964290?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

www.oxfordstudent.com/2023/05/13/is-oxford-a-welcoming-place-for-trans-students/

loislovesstewie · 17/05/2023 14:21

ArabeIIaScott · 17/05/2023 14:07

Are these people going to end up in positions of influence and power?

I hope not or else we are going to hell in a handcart.

Boomboom22 · 17/05/2023 14:23

loislovesstewie · 17/05/2023 14:20

He lost me at genderqueer. I mean what does that mean when we're at home?

He seems to think it means he is more oppressed than women have ever been!

SinnerBoy · 17/05/2023 14:25

evenoxfordneedssaving · Today 12:55

Text of the letter:

I enjoyed reading that. It was succinct and pulled no punches.

Clymene · 17/05/2023 14:26

It's particularly stupid that he's complained that they misgendered him when he says on his alt account that he uses any pronouns.

What a numpty

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 14:26

From that silly student newspaper article:

Stock has gained prominence through her gender critical views, arguing that proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act threatened a “secure understanding of the concept ‘lesbian’” and womanhood more broadly, and that “many trans women are still males with male genitalia”.
The University’s LGBTQ+ society was first to respond, releasing a tweet that stated it was “dismayed and appalled” that the Oxford Union decided to “platform” Stock, arguing that, the Union was “disregarding the welfare of its LGBTQ+ members under the guise of free speech”. Stock retweetedd^ their statement, saying that it was “probably defamatory”, leading to more than 1 million views on the society’s social media page. Within the statement, the society alleged that Stock had campaigned “against trans rights”, “supporting conversion therapy”, and supporting “hate groups” like the LGB Alliance.
Soon after this, a pile on ensued. The Telegraph wrote about the personal detailss^ of the society’s President Amiad Haran Diman, and Zoë-Rose Guy, the society’s Secretary and de-facto Vice President. GB News ran s^ on the ‘no-platforming’ of Stock. This led to members of the society receiving thousands of hateful messages, and eventually the committee took down posts on social media for fear of retribution.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 14:29

https://twitter.com/addihd02/status/1655164878540210176?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

"Kathleen Stock is bringing her attack on trans people to the Oxford Union, and we will not stay silent. There is nothing that the TERFs hate and are confused by more than trans joy! Come join us, and reach out to me if you'd like to help!"

wacademia · 17/05/2023 14:30

interesting that the lecturers are in support of this. They’ve been taking the blame for indoctrinating students - so in my opinion it looks like it’s more the student leaders and activists coupled with social media.

It's a subset of academics in specific disciplined, usually sociology and politics and related humanities subjects, that push queer theory and gender identity to the students. I'm glad to see sociology academics on the list of signatories.

But yes, the student unions push it hard. Part of the problem is the democratic deficit in student unions. Voter turnout for SU officer elections is very low because most students can't be bothered to vote for officers in an institution that affects them for only three years. It's very easy for an activist with lots of friends to win an election with a three figure vote and then claim to be the voice of a five figure number of students.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/05/2023 14:31

Boomboom22 · 17/05/2023 14:19

This must be a disciplinary matter, I can't see Oxford letting him bring them.into such disrepute on radio 4 with no consequences.

Students rarely seem to have consequences for this sort of thing these days.
Did the ones who directly persecuted Kathleen Stock suffer consequences?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 14:32

No, I don't think so @TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Clymene · 17/05/2023 14:32

He's complained that his boyfriend has been doxxed and then reposted the article on his Twitter account? Confused

Also this guy thinks he's going to solve the Israel Palestine conflict, he needs to be able to demonstrate an ability to see arguments from different perspectives. Having heard his rant on WATO, I'd say he's utterly incapable of doing that.

wacademia · 17/05/2023 14:34

loislovesstewie · 17/05/2023 14:21

I hope not or else we are going to hell in a handcart.

Sadly, it's quite possible. Look up Wes Streeting's time as Cambridge SU president and then NUS president. As NUS president, he dropped the long-running "grants not loans" campaign that was brought in after the student finance changes in the 90s. And now has the rank hypocrisy to be a Labour MP.

chioppy · 17/05/2023 14:35

Thank duck for that!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 14:35

I was reading about some female academic I'd never heard of who had withdrawn her work on 18th century humour because Oxford University Press is daring to publish a second book by Holly Lawford Smith.

twitter.com/aytchellesse/status/1657161481002291200?s=20

SinnerBoy · 17/05/2023 14:36

Clymene · Today 14:26

It's particularly stupid that he's complained that they misgendered him...

And hypocritical. Whatever pronoun they used, he'd have faked a hissy fit about it. It's all about the fake outrage and "Lookit meeee! I'm a victim!!!" with this lot.

He's delighted to have lead (hitherto anonymously) a lynch mob against Professor Stock and to have caused her to be vilified, threatened, abandoned by her colleagues and union and hounded out of her job, but he doesn't want the general public to know it was him.

He's a reprehensible little watchamacallit.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 14:36

And hypocritical. Whatever pronoun they used, he'd have faked a hissy fit about it. It's all about the fake outrage and "Lookit meeee! I'm a victim!!!" with this lot.

100%

Pandaparty · 17/05/2023 14:37

loislovesstewie · 17/05/2023 14:20

He lost me at genderqueer. I mean what does that mean when we're at home?

Think it means he occasionally dons earrings, corsets and clinging tops, and thinks this makes him extremely oppressed.

40 Oxford dons sign letter in support of Kathleen Stock
40 Oxford dons sign letter in support of Kathleen Stock
ArabeIIaScott · 17/05/2023 14:38

wacademia · 17/05/2023 14:30

interesting that the lecturers are in support of this. They’ve been taking the blame for indoctrinating students - so in my opinion it looks like it’s more the student leaders and activists coupled with social media.

It's a subset of academics in specific disciplined, usually sociology and politics and related humanities subjects, that push queer theory and gender identity to the students. I'm glad to see sociology academics on the list of signatories.

But yes, the student unions push it hard. Part of the problem is the democratic deficit in student unions. Voter turnout for SU officer elections is very low because most students can't be bothered to vote for officers in an institution that affects them for only three years. It's very easy for an activist with lots of friends to win an election with a three figure vote and then claim to be the voice of a five figure number of students.

Part of the problem is the democratic deficit in student unions. Voter turnout for SU officer elections is very low because most students can't be bothered to vote for officers in an institution that affects them for only three years. It's very easy for an activist with lots of friends to win an election with a three figure vote and then claim to be the voice of a five figure number of students.

Funnily enough, this exact same dynamic plays out in grown up political parties, too.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2023 14:40

Funnily enough, this exact same dynamic plays out in grown up political parties, too.

Yes, especially eg SNP, Lib Dems and Green Party.

ArabeIIaScott · 17/05/2023 14:40

Meanwhile, I wonder if these young people at Oxford have the slightest inkling of how it looks to the rest of the country that they're complaining about being oppressed.

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