Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Academic pulls book from Oxford University Press in transphobia row

43 replies

Igneococcus · 13/05/2023 07:20

Canadian academic withdraws her book (on 18th century humour) from publication because the publisher also publishes books from GC author. That is quite some hyperbole Eugenia Zuroski is spouting.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/826fcd46-f0ce-11ed-bdc8-c06a4e8c18d7?shareToken=37067ff30bfc828a4f17a797c3ce5310

Academic pulls book from Oxford University Press in transphobia row

An academic has withdrawn her forthcoming book from Oxford University Press and accused the publisher of helping to launder “genocidal fascism” against trans p

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/826fcd46-f0ce-11ed-bdc8-c06a4e8c18d7?shareToken=37067ff30bfc828a4f17a797c3ce5310

OP posts:
SquidwardBound · 13/05/2023 11:22

I really hope that this woman looks back at this from a position of having grown up and is utterly ashamed of all this genocide pretend play.

It is beyond irresponsible and absolutely trivialises a term that describes atrocities with multi-generational effects.

if she actually cared about issues of race or social justice, she should know better than this. But I think she’s essentially only interested in loud, pointless complaining in social media as self promotion.

Grammarnut · 13/05/2023 13:18

ArabeIIaScott · 13/05/2023 08:46

Probably more improving humour.

18th century? Scatalogical and satyric, probably. Robust century with few euphemism and rather fluid morals in some quarters.

PermanentTemporary · 13/05/2023 13:27

No objection to someone choosing not to publish their book via a publisher they don't like and saying why, in itself. Use your economic power where you choose and how you choose.

It's just a very odd conception of what publishing is and what it's for.

Just like GBNews has a very odd conception of what news is - staged rows to post on twitter, apparently. Not clicking on the link.

dropthevipers · 13/05/2023 17:19

Another instance proving what Kissinger once said (hardly my go-to guy for wisdom or insight, but just this once he is bang on) that academic cat fights are so vicious because the stakes are so small.

DerekFaker · 13/05/2023 18:07

Genesis1v27 · 13/05/2023 09:57

Zuroski cites a statement by the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention. This has to be read to be believed. A sample sentence: "The gender critical movement is a totalitarian and genocidal social force that targets not just transgender people, but also all the institutions of democracy that protect individual and collective human rights."

https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-the-genocidal-nature-of-the-gender-critical-movement%E2%80%99s-ideology-and-practice

I think we might have discussed them before, but afaiaa, this organisation has no official affiliation with Raphael Lemkin, and have only been around a few years.

ArabeIIaScott · 13/05/2023 18:25

Grammarnut · 13/05/2023 13:18

18th century? Scatalogical and satyric, probably. Robust century with few euphemism and rather fluid morals in some quarters.

Yes, I had the author in mind, rather than the actual literature!

nepeta · 13/05/2023 19:16

I would have thought that calling her book "eighteenth century humour" is extremely Eurocentric and patriarchal and not at all properly inclusive, given that her work must be based on writings from that era and they will be predominantly by white men and the jokes are likely to also be about male humour.

The Lemkin Institute essay is not based on any research but consists of the unsupported opinions of its author.

It catastrophises the consequences of any form of questioning or debating and argues that not treating transgender people exactly the same as those of the sex their gender identity would match (except when extra privileges are also demanded) is genocide, because the author gives 'genocide' that definition and then links it to Nazism etcetera.

AsTreesWalking · 13/05/2023 19:19

"No, I'm not going to spend 80USD on this book to wrestle w/ its arguments. Scholarship is not free to produce or consume. Scholarly publishing is an economy & a community. I can boycott w/ my wallet and not buy the book AND as a scholar & publisher say WTF?!"
She can boycott a book she doesn't want to read, but she cannot then have a scholarly opinion on it. Scholarship may not be free, but it must be thorough, and based in factual, critical argument, or what's the point?

nepeta · 13/05/2023 19:22

AsTreesWalking · 13/05/2023 19:19

"No, I'm not going to spend 80USD on this book to wrestle w/ its arguments. Scholarship is not free to produce or consume. Scholarly publishing is an economy & a community. I can boycott w/ my wallet and not buy the book AND as a scholar & publisher say WTF?!"
She can boycott a book she doesn't want to read, but she cannot then have a scholarly opinion on it. Scholarship may not be free, but it must be thorough, and based in factual, critical argument, or what's the point?

I find it truly astonishing how very few academic trans activists seem to have done any of the kind of theoretical thinking this topic requires. Zero, in many cases (those who state that rights are not a pie and so can never be clashing!).

Thinking is supposed to be what they are trained for, even thinking about arguments they disagree with.

NatashaDancing · 13/05/2023 19:24

ArabeIIaScott · 13/05/2023 10:53

And withholding their books about 18th century hahas from the breathless unwashed masses. I mean, that's cruel.

Is her book actually about 18th century hahas? That would be impressively niche.

dropthevipers · 13/05/2023 19:39

nepeta · 13/05/2023 19:22

I find it truly astonishing how very few academic trans activists seem to have done any of the kind of theoretical thinking this topic requires. Zero, in many cases (those who state that rights are not a pie and so can never be clashing!).

Thinking is supposed to be what they are trained for, even thinking about arguments they disagree with.

Well, yes-the issue of rigorous argument from the Trans activists (stop sniggering at the back) does raise the question-is there anyone, at all, that espouses this tin foil hattery that can even approximate a convincing imitation of scholarship? (and no, Butlerian woke word salad bingo does not cut it)

ArabeIIaScott · 13/05/2023 19:41

NatashaDancing · 13/05/2023 19:24

Is her book actually about 18th century hahas? That would be impressively niche.

I walked right into that one. 😂

FlirtsWithRhinos · 13/05/2023 20:06

Grammarnut · 13/05/2023 13:18

18th century? Scatalogical and satyric, probably. Robust century with few euphemism and rather fluid morals in some quarters.

I often think our culture's assoctaion of male homosexuality and male trans[vestite/sexual/gender]ism has roots in the 18th Molly houses. Maybe not all its roots but definitely some strong ones.

TheBiologyStupid · 13/05/2023 20:29

NatashaDancing · 13/05/2023 19:24

Is her book actually about 18th century hahas? That would be impressively niche.

Brilliant - haha...!

Genesis1v27 · 13/05/2023 21:14

DerekFaker · 13/05/2023 18:07

I think we might have discussed them before, but afaiaa, this organisation has no official affiliation with Raphael Lemkin, and have only been around a few years.

I hadn't known about Raphael Lemkin until looking him up after your post. It is unsurprising that a lobby group like this would seek to appropriate his reputation and achievements by taking his name, but I am surprised they can get away with it without challenge.

NatashaDancing · 13/05/2023 22:04

SquidwardBound · 13/05/2023 11:22

I really hope that this woman looks back at this from a position of having grown up and is utterly ashamed of all this genocide pretend play.

It is beyond irresponsible and absolutely trivialises a term that describes atrocities with multi-generational effects.

if she actually cared about issues of race or social justice, she should know better than this. But I think she’s essentially only interested in loud, pointless complaining in social media as self promotion.

I very much doubt she will learn anything.

NatashaDancing · 13/05/2023 22:17

Genesis1v27 · 13/05/2023 21:14

I hadn't known about Raphael Lemkin until looking him up after your post. It is unsurprising that a lobby group like this would seek to appropriate his reputation and achievements by taking his name, but I am surprised they can get away with it without challenge.

I've had a look at their website and annual report. I can't work out what they actually do. Maybe I'm being unfair but looks like lot of parsnips being left unbuttered

Grimchmas · 13/05/2023 22:21

Quite apart from the attack of women's rights and the ability to talk about them, I despair for academia.

Back in my day (which really doesn't seem that long ago) we were taught critical thinking, and debating skills. I was presented with some pretty robust subjects to debate - I had to argue the case for animal cruelty, ffs! Didn't turn me into an animal hater, funnily enough, but it does seem like it has made me more resilient than today's crop.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page