U11 Netball team with a boy

[PlusOneMet]

My DD played a team with a boy, local league match. He was rougher than the girls, broke a lot of rules and still got POTM. Should this be allowed? I want to complain but I’m not certain of the rules when they’re 10/11 years old.

I think its Yr7 they separate (U12s).

They play together in primary school surely? My daughter has played against mixed sex netball teams in the past.

My daughters 10/11 year old team has 2 boys. It didn’t once cross my mind that it was a problem?

Y6 primary age son here - when his school y6 team play matches and tournaments all the teams have to have a certain number of boys in the team (I think it's 2 or 3?)

They have separate boy & girl teams once they start high school.

He got POTM? FFS. 🙄

Should girls not play in boys football teams at that age then?

It's pretty standard up until Year 7/8

Usually the governing body of the sport in question will have their own rules. In football mixed teams are allowed up to 18 under FA rules.

What does the netball governing body say?
At 11 boys are usually pre puberty so no real physical advantage over girls.
If he broke the rules he should have been blown up by the ref? That's poor refereeing and not the child's fault.

I feel like cos he was a boy they went easier on him

He had a physical advantage, 11 isn’t pre puberty it varies child to child

Football is a contact sport unlike netball and there's mixed teams up until 12 years.

I think the main issue here is you didn't know all sports are mixed sex in younger years. They only separate as they get older and even then, some stay mixed sex and create a female league alongside to encourage women to stay in the game.
The slight advantage boys may have might be why they are limited in number on netball teams. As part of the team, they can definitely get POTM.
The school would have sent a leaflet to explain. Mine did.

I didn't play team sports when I was younger. I regret it now. But that means I don't know some of these rules either. It's OK. Live and learn.

Netball is still mixed at that age. However clearly the rules should be applied fairly to all players.

As others have said- under 12 is usually mixed, to give all kids a chance to play- boys netball teams are probably more difficult to come by- although that may not be the case in your area. If you think the umpiring was unfair- that's something you can definitely bring up, but that to me wouldn't be a sex specific issue.

DS played in his primary school netball team - they were limited to 2 boys on the pitch at any one time. It was great for him as it gave an opportunity to the boys who (like DS) don’t enjoy football. He was in defence as his forte is getting in the way whether he intends to or not.

It was balanced out by the tag rugby team needing to have at least 2 girls on the pitch at once, however DD complained that the boys would never pass to them.

There was a separate girls football team, though; even at primary school there was a massive gulf between the boys and girls, mainly due to the amount of practice the football-y boys put in compared to (most of) the girls.

DS2 played netball for the county, in a mixed team, until he was 13. He often got POTM, too, but he wasn’t rough and didn’t break the rules.

In primary school sports are mixed, which is great imo. My DC went to a small, rural school, if it hadn’t have been there wouldn’t have been any sports teams to represent their school.

I sympathise, @PlusOneMet Even though many sports bodies allow this, 12 is too late to wait to separate girls' and boys' sports. Boys have a significant athletic advantage from birth and reap the benefit of another mini puberty before proper puberty. This disparity is becoming more widely recognised.
So your DD's team should have had a boy in it as well, for fairness.
The umpire sounds rubbish. I can well believe s/he went easy on him. You get that in other sports - the ref doesn't want to look fussy.

I disagree. Separating boys and girls pre 12 (ie primary school!) would likely lead to boys doing 'boys' sports and girls doing 'girls' sports. This is to the detriment of everyone regardless of gender. Primary schools and local grass roots teams don't often have the ability to run both gender teams in every sport. (Football is possibly the exception but this has had a big increase in funding and exposure over recent years.)
Unless we keep sports mixed at 11 and under the 'boys don't pass to me' issue is being perpetuated. Because boys will see that girls 'don't belong' in 'their' sports..... so excluding an 11 year old boy in a non contact sport where mixed teams are allowed by the governing body or even insisting the opposition also has a boy (who may have a slight physical advantage but may not) perpetuates the 'girls can't keep up'myth. Ie its not fair as you have a boy ergo they are better than us.
This is (correct me if I am wrong) a grassroots league for children. Not the Olympics.
For what it's worth my DD played boys football for years. And was the only girl on the pitch. She often got 'special attention ' from opposition coaches and referees. Unasked for. It was just she was unusual.
If we make it less unusual maybe unconscious or conscious bias will reduce.
Poor umpiring or parental or coach bias is not the child's fault. He is doing nothing wrong. It maybe hard to find a mixed or boys team in his area. Maybe all his friends play on the team!
I imagine he gets a lot of stick from.his mates my DD did....again maybe that sort of thing would reduce if we just saw sports for young kids as sports and not boys sports and girls sports.

I played on a boys rugby team at that age, there wasn’t a girls one. And I got my turn being captain too.
For hockey we still played mixed at U12. It was U14 that we separated.
This is just normal for all sports, it’s just rarer to see boys on a netball team than a hockey team.

Primary SCHOOL teams should definitely be mixed.

It is more complex for out of school sports.

My DD is currently Yr5. She can no longer play on her out of school rugby team next season as safety regulations say its single sex from U12 level. Tbh... there have been some hairy moments this past season but the other girl is bigger than a lot of the boys as well.

However the next season team lists are currently showing a squad of 14 fir the U12 boys and 3 for U12 girls. So the girls will be able to train but not play unless the recruit another handful plus make an alliance. Its a shame. But safety comes first.

Its the same for "girl" sports... there's a limit to when the boys can play safely and fairly. Disappointing for them. But safety more important.

11 is pre puberty in boys

it is generally, yes, though my son's football team had one six footer with a big booming voice aged 11 years and a couple of months, it certainly does happen.

DS10 is playing a netball match for his junior school soon. He's so excited to be in a school team and whilst he is very fit he has definitely no physical advantage over the girls. Most of them are much taller than him for a start.

Some children can play really rough, we encounter this in football quite a bit and some children are much more timid about contact in sport. If you're unhappy about a particular child being awarded potm when they broke rules and were rough then by all means take it up with the school. I would say though that this is part and parcel of school life to some extent. Not everything is fair. This has nothing to do with mixed teams though. It's just one particular child that you have an issue with

I watched my Y6 daughter play in a mixed school netball competition. Max two boys per team. I was struck by how much more able most of the boys were. It wasn’t a physical thing I don’t think (many of the girls were taller/more advanced in puberty than the boys) but one of opportunity. I think they had the advantage of more experience in team sports, either on the playground or elsewhere. They were far more confident and generally had better co-ordination, better spatial awareness, better understanding of team play and ground coverage. This is a generalisation of course, but it was noticeable, even to my unsporting eye! I don’t think the solution is to separate earlier. Girls need more opportunities to play a range of sports both formally and informally (stop letting playgrounds be dominated by kick-about footy, pushing girls to chat at the periphery?). It is good to have more skilled players on your team to learn from.

Making mixed sex sport the only option at primary school discriminates against girls. Whether we like it or not, male advantage is real and there is no stage in life when it is not significant. Anecdotal evidence doesn't change this.

This is one of the studies showing this:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/224914505_Physical_Fitness_Differences_Between_Prepubescent_Boys_and_Girls

Excerpt:
The physical fitness assessment employed sets of aerobic fitness, strength, flexibility, speed, agility, and balance. The boys presented higher values in all selected tests, except tests of balance and flexibility, in which girls scored better.
The vast majority of sports reward the qualities boys excel in rather than those that girls do.

This graphic sets out the difference in achievement clearly.
https://twitter.com/sharrond62/status/1620808961367629828/photo/1

And here's one just for 8-year-olds:
https://twitter.com/sharrond62/status/1620501818777411584/photo/1

There is no reason why separate boys and girls sport sessions should inevitably lead to the concept of girls' sports (netball) and boys' sports (everything else). Schools can decide which sports to offer and then schedule boys and girls sessions in those sports. In a small rural population, mixed sex sessions may be unavoidable especially for team sport, but in that case there should be equal numbers of boys on each team as far as possible.
If girls have to compete in individual sports with boys, then results should be recorded and celebrated separately - fastest girl, fastest boy, etc. Boys need to learn to respect the athletic achievements of girls as a distinct class - as do girls for themselves. Pretending that boys and girls are the same when it comes to sport just hurts girls. They're not the same.

In primary school, the emphasis of sport is supposed to be on fun. How much fun do you suppose was had by the girls on OP's DD's team? Whether the sport is netball or football, some of the boys will bully or ignore the girls. They're just ordinary girls who like netball, not world-beaters in the making. We're trying to get these kids to enjoy running around and getting sweaty, to learn about cooperation and competition, build resilience and confidence - and to taste a measure of success. If a young girl's experience of PE is either being desperate to join in and being ignored, or having to tussle with someone who is much stronger or much rougher than she is used to, she may well drift away, because it's no fun any more.

The England Lionesses' letter to the Government last summer has this paragraph:

We ask you and your government to ensure that all girls have access to a minimum of 2 hours a week PE. Not only should we be offering football to all girls, we also need to invest in and support female PE teachers too. Their role is crucial and we need to give them the resources to provide girls' football sessions. They are key role models from which so many young girls can flourish.

Full text:
https://twitter.com/Lionesses/status/1554829482757828617?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1554829482757828617%7Ctwgr%5E0ab0d8ac2dc0810e01c47df9cd097544cb62b64c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itv.com%2Fnews%2F2022-08-03%2Flionesses-write-open-letter-to-allow-all-girls-to-play-football-at-school

Leah Williamson (captain of England Women) has said:
Q: Tell us about a coach that has particularly inspired you.

A: ...All of my coaches were incredible along the way. I could have had a terrible experience playing for a boys' team aged six but my first coach made sure it was a experience I want to relive over and over!

Full article here:
https://www.arsenal.com/news/leah-williamson-shares-her-inspirations

And in the same series of articles, here is Lotte Wubben-Moy (driving force behind the letter):

Q: Looking back, has there been a coach that particularly inspired you?

A: Back in primary school, my P. E. teacher Paul was someone who gave young girls a space where they could feel safe and feel like they could be themselves. He helped me start a football team at my primary school, a girls' football team, when there wasn't one and that really set me on this path.

Full article:
https://www.arsenal.com/news/lotte-wubben-moy-her-inspirations-and-ambitions

She has also said that the letter was sent for the sake of the girls who boys won't pass the ball to, as much as for budding Lionesses.

Would you be happy for 11- and 12-year-old boys to compete routinely against 14- and 15-year-olds? Because it's the same thing. It would destroy their confidence.