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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New blog post: On Not Having a 'True Self'

21 replies

Parisite · 09/05/2023 12:48

'The search for the True Self has become our dominant cultural myth.'

Punchy blog post that challenges the idea we all have a 'True Self', located in something like a soul. Includes gender and detransitioning, and why matter matters.

https://www.flaneurnotes.com/post/on-not-having-a-true-self

On Not Having a ‘True Self’

‘This above all: to thine own self be true.’ One of many lines from Shakespeare’s Hamlet that have become everyday English phrases. They are the words of Polonius, chief minister to the King, to his son Laertes before he heads off to university. Here,...

https://www.flaneurnotes.com/post/on-not-having-a-true-self

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RealityFan · 09/05/2023 16:13

This so chimes with me. Helen Joyce and Eliza Mondegreen are now making this point, that the rush to transition and the industry facilitating it, medicine and councilling, is purely aimed at boosting the happiness of the self, with no account taken of interaction with society, and myriad co-morbidities.

So, the patient makes a self diagnosis, the only thing the medical professional feels compelled to do is facilitate the steps to guarantee ultimate happiness.

What could go wrong?

lechiffre55 · 09/05/2023 16:42

What could go wrong?

See Cass report when it releases.

MrsJamin · 09/05/2023 17:19

Add to this the word "authentic". Cue massive eyeroll 🙄

Parisite · 09/05/2023 18:36

MrsJamin · 09/05/2023 17:19

Add to this the word "authentic". Cue massive eyeroll 🙄

Yes, quite. The article talks looks at the use of the word 'authentic', how in reality some 'authentic' selves are considered acceptable and others aren't.

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RoseslnTheHospital · 09/05/2023 18:39

This is also part of the "bring your whole self" to work over-expansion. It now seems to mean bring every private and personal interest into work or be branded a prude or to be unacceptably introverted. Rather than just being able to talk about your same sex partner without being a target for discrimination.

bellinisurge · 09/05/2023 18:42

No one really wants me to "bring my authentic self" to work. Or some other such narcissistic nonsense. It's called "growing up". If you choose to let me know your sexual orientation, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too. But I could not give a shit about a person's gender identity unless they are men who want to use it as an excuse to access women's same sex spaces. Or women who want to call maternity leave "parental leave" as if it's the same thing. Then I care a LOT.

Parisite · 10/05/2023 09:37

The idea that I have a 'true self' that's hard to find, and is different from my everyday self, is weird. But, as the article says, it's a handy tool for cult groups and sales people who claim to know my true self better than I do.

The idea of a hidden 'true self' that isn't the everyday me should set off warning bells, particularly for those of us who are a bit insecure.

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ArabeIIaScott · 10/05/2023 10:14

Thanks for sharing, good article.

One of the central tenets of Buddhism is 'Anatta'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatt%C4%81

Anattā - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatt%C4%81

ValerieDoonican · 10/05/2023 10:45

Wonderful article - thank you for sharing, Parisite.

It's all so exhausting, and feels also very competitive, even if only with your previous less 'realised' self: "look I'm being more obnoxious authentic than you. Me me me, I I I.

It's such a common trait in social media profiles and indeed accounts. Finding yourself endlessly fascinating, and assuming the rest of us do too!

Its normal for teenagers obviously but I have to say even in my long-ago 20s (I did mix with a lot of hippy types who were ahead of the game on this) I started to find it all a bit cringemaking.

It's not that I have sailed through life without mental troubles that required a bit of introspection - I have had troubles and have had to understand myslef better to ease them. But golly, my inner self is not exactly interesting!

Parisite · 10/05/2023 11:36

ArabeIIaScott · 10/05/2023 10:14

Thanks for sharing, good article.

One of the central tenets of Buddhism is 'Anatta'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatt%C4%81

Fascinating. Detail gets a bit specialist, but the whole idea clearly v relevant!

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ArabeIIaScott · 10/05/2023 11:45

Yes. I'd say it does need to be considered in a historical context, of Buddhism as a response to and growing out of Hinduism.

And something people can spend years studying and discussing and considering and experiencing. So not necessarily quick & straightforward to grasp! It can all be quite subtle and nuanced.

Parisite · 10/05/2023 12:00

I wonder if it's relevant that Ruth Hunt, former head of Stonewall, describes herself as a practising Catholic.

In the light of the blog post, I wonder if it's more than coincidence. Somebody who believes you can have a 'true' inner gender identity at odds with your physical body... belonging to a religion that talks about an invisible soul as the seat of true identity, in tension with the body.

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ArabeIIaScott · 10/05/2023 12:11

Possible, yes. We've recently been discussing 'gender identity' and the closest the person who believed in it could come to describing it was a 'gendered soul'.

Parisite · 10/05/2023 12:20

I find the Catholic and gender theory thing so interesting that I'm tempted to do a new post about it and see what others think.

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nilsmousehammer · 10/05/2023 12:25

First point would be: no, not everyone gets to have a 'true self' or be 'authentic' in this philosophy.

Just special people who are more powerful.

Because 'true selves' and 'authenticity' require service from others, who need to be focused on you and what you want and need, and not getting in the way by having needs, feelings, identities and realities of their own. Especially ones that conflict by saying 'but I don't have a gender identity' or 'my true authentic self is a female homosexual'.

hamstersarse · 10/05/2023 12:43

It is such a complicated subject, the 'true self' - now bastardised and manipulated for power plays and relief from anxiety.

The framework I find most helpful is the psychodynamic framework, specifically Carl Jung. Here the 'true self' is all about the unification of consciousness and unconsciousness in a person, and representing the psyche as a whole. So that is unifying all the stuff that lurks in the unconscious with our conscious thought.

The critical aspect of this is that the self is realised through a process of individuation, which means integrating various aspects of your personality. In Jungianism, that includes the representation of the masculine and the feminine - an individuation process intergrates both. So a person has both masculine energies (directive, aggressive etc) and feminine energies (nurture, empathy etc) (The masculine and feminine archetypes are not male and female - indeed men need to integrate feminine energy and women integrate masculine).

If you think about very 'well put together' people, they behave in both masculine and feminine ways - they can be forthright when they need to be, and can be kind and nurturing when they need to be. Their sex at this point isn't really relevant - it is just that they have done the 'work' to get there and inhibit both behavioural sets.

My personal view is that we are interrupting the process of individuation with the trans movement - just because I feel like I am behaving in a masculine way, I am not male, I am more than likely within the process of integration (which is very psychologically healthy!!). In this sense, it really is pure exploitation to take a young person who may be starting to integrate some masculine/feminine behaviours that are not 'typical' of their sex, and tell them they are not in the right body - every body can be masculine and feminine in their psyche. Just not in biology.

Add onto that equation some trauma, some parental attachment issues and even some neurodiversity and it is a dire dire situation

nilsmousehammer · 10/05/2023 12:56

Hamster wish there was a like button, fascinating post.

ValerieDoonican · 10/05/2023 13:13

nilsmousehammer · 10/05/2023 12:56

Hamster wish there was a like button, fascinating post.

Seconded!

Parisite · 10/05/2023 13:21

ValerieDoonican · 10/05/2023 13:13

Seconded!

Thirded!

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MoltenLasagne · 10/05/2023 13:26

Really interesting article - I think there's some link here to the "love yourself" mantra as well.

On the surface, love yourself seems wholesome - of course you should treat yourself with kindness. But if your focus is to love yourself, you have an external viewpoint focusing inwards, watching yourself from the outside. It encourages introspection and a type of self objectification.

If you instead focus on loving being yourself then your focus is outwards towards your actions and experiences. It turns you from object to subject. Similar to how people are happier when the have an internal locus of control rather than an external locus of control.

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