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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian thinks it's wrong to co-opt an identity for personal advantage

9 replies

ValerieDoonican · 08/05/2023 09:55

... apparently , pretending to be a different ethnicity is obviously wrong.

(Apologies if there is another thread, couldn't see one)

Yes I know this is a bit snarky of me, but 🙄🙄

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/05/elizabeth-hoover-berkeley-native-american-indigenous?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

US professor apologizes after wrongly claiming to be Native American

Calls mount for Elizabeth Hoover, anthropologist at UC Berkeley who said she had Indigenous heritage, to resign

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/05/elizabeth-hoover-berkeley-native-american-indigenous?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

OP posts:
NotRightNowNo · 08/05/2023 09:57

Ah well that's all right then. We've got the Gruniad to tell us what's right and wrong.

FrancescaContini · 08/05/2023 10:09

“Pretendians” - does this include men pretending to be women?

I really enjoyed the 😖 aspect of this article. Thanks for sharing it.

ValerieDoonican · 08/05/2023 10:14

"Pretendians" is great isn't it? And Guardian approved! 👍🤣

OP posts:
DemiColon · 08/05/2023 10:30

This kind of thing is increasingly a problem, especially in universities, and it points to some real issues with the whole project of treating identities differently. There are real advantages in terms of gaining positions if you can claim to be a member of a minority, at least in North America. Want to get on a great research team doing some important scientific work with a prestigious professor? Their grants now require them to hire based on diversity quotas.

You also get people who do have the relevant DNA, but no connection to the culture - I know a fellow at my university hired what must be two years ago now, who has indigenous ancestry - he told me he's never considered himself indigenous but when competing for a position, he couldn't afford to not mark it down. Great for him, I guess, but shitty for the poor bugger who just has to compete on his merits.

I keep coming back to this on the issue of gender ideology - it's not going to be defeated until this id politics approach is defeated, and that includes where its found within feminism.

ValerieDoonican · 08/05/2023 11:01

Interesting point demi - do you feel there is a difference between "characteristics" and "identity", and is that a useful distiction?

OP posts:
MrGHardy · 08/05/2023 14:30

I certainly do. "Identity" is a meaningless term in my opinion. Identifying as something, doesn't make you that something. Height as a characteristic for example is absolute on the other hand. Granted, we may all shrink to varying degrees in old age, but you are the height that you are. That's a very significant difference.

DemiColon · 08/05/2023 14:56

ValerieDoonican · 08/05/2023 11:01

Interesting point demi - do you feel there is a difference between "characteristics" and "identity", and is that a useful distiction?

I haven't really sat down and thought about that in this context, but my initial thought is that if you are talking about giving special advantages for certain people, it makes no difference whether you are talking about characteristics or an identity.

In fact, my suspicion is that if you start to define people regularly as a group according to them holding certain characteristics, and especially if you create those advantages, you will create an identity, even if one did not exist before. You can see that somewhat with the creation of a gazillion different "queer" identities with all their little flags.

Chersfrozenface · 08/05/2023 15:49

And yet I can't "identify" as French, despite having lived there in the past and speaking the language to a pretty good level.

Oh no, I'd have to provide documentary proof of ancestry / official relationship or extended legal residence to get French citizenship.

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