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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

“Don’t stop believin’”: Three days at the European Professional Association for Transgender Health

8 replies

NecessaryScene · 04/05/2023 19:54

An amazing piece by Eliza Mondegreen.

She reported from the WPATH conference a few months back, and now she's returned from the EPATH conference that was held near the Genspect conference in Ireland.

Grim and bizarre reading, but also somewhat hopeful - it sounds like they're trying to figure out what to do as it all unravels.

https://genspect.org/dont-stop-believin-three-days-at-the-european-professional-association-for-transgender-health/

A Swedish researcher had the misfortune to find that “youth with gender dysphoria diagnoses face persisting mental health challenges after initiation of treatment with puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones,” including increased psychiatric hospitalization, expressed that she was “really concerned about how results will be interpreted,” since “as you all know, there are improved mental health outcomes following puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones.” “Gender-affirming treatment is supposed to alleviate gender dysphoria,” the researcher reiterated. “It would be a good thing if it alleviated other mental health challenges but even if mental health challenges persist, that doesn’t mean it’s not the right treatment for gender dysphoria.” In response, a prominent Dutch researcher mused: “What should we use as an outcome measure? Mental health needs? What if you ask the kids: are you happy with the treatment and they say, ‘yes, we are happy’?”

[...] It would be unreasonable to expect too much from treatments—even treatments that have been offered to patients as a cure-all. Perhaps this sobering realization lies behind the decision to roll out new terminology, replacing ‘gender-affirming care’ with ‘gender-affirming medical treatment.’ Then clinicians can say that a patient’s physical embodiment goals pursuant to a sense of ‘gender incongruence’ were met, even if the patient’s mental health crashed.

[...] In a disturbing update on the “intersection” of autism and transgender identity among patients at the Dutch clinic, researchers reported that—out of 30 patients potentially eligible to participate in a 17-year follow-up study—four had declined to participate, two had detransitioned, one who had not detransitioned expressed serious regrets about vaginoplasty, and two [...] died by suicide. [...] The presenters preferred to dwell on the “diversity” of their “trans-autistic” patients, with their variety of self-identifications 17 years after they started down the path to transition: “fairy,” “elf,” “non-binary,” “friendly non-intimidating woman,” “cis” (read: detransitioned). “Each referral,” the presenters said, including the patients who died and the patients who detransitioned or experienced regret, “followed their own unique path with regard to their gender identity and mental health trajectory.”

Over and over again, researchers and clinicians presented damning findings that suggest something is going seriously wrong in the world of ‘gender-affirming care’ and then neglected to apply their findings to their work, which remains imperative and life-saving—even when patients die.

At EPATH, presenters and attendees alike skirted the difficult issues gender raises. On Friday, one presenter explained that she would not be sharing quotes from her research because “they were really triggering and it’s the last day of the conference.” In other words: let’s avoid touchy subjects so we don’t spoil the mood.

But the mood of the conference was strange—uneven—like a family holiday after something has gone badly wrong, where nothing that needs to be said will be said. The pieces of the conference refused to fit together. There’s a genocide underway but social acceptance is greater than ever before. We’re under attack by a global movement that seeks our annihilation but more optimistic than ever before about the future of the work we do. The evidence is troubling but gender-affirming care effective. Everything is hunky dory, except for all the things that aren’t. Don’t worry. Worry. Was I the only one who left confused about how I was meant to feel?

“Don’t stop believin’”: Three days at the European Professional Association for Transgender Health  - Genspect

Share with: I spent last week traveling up and down Muckross Road in Killarney, Ireland. I walked south to the European Professional Association for Transgender Health conference and north to Genspect’s The Bigger Picture. The two conferences could har...

https://genspect.org/dont-stop-believin-three-days-at-the-european-professional-association-for-transgender-health

OP posts:
Justme56 · 04/05/2023 20:10

I like Eliza. I watched her on Benjamin Boyce when she was discussing the WPATh guidelines. Even this conference sounds cultish. Brush over anything negative as though it’s not a problem. These are people’s lives they are playing with and they just don’t seem to care.

BonfireLady · 04/05/2023 20:50

I saw that one too @Justme56 . She has a great way of explaining what she discovered calmly and clearly.

Lots stood out for me but particularly this (bold added by me):

A Swedish researcher had the misfortune to find that “youth with gender dysphoria diagnoses face persisting mental health challenges after initiation of treatment with puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones,” including increased psychiatric hospitalization, expressed that she was “really concerned about how results will be interpreted,” since “as you all know, there are improved mental health outcomes following puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones.” “Gender-affirming treatment is supposed to alleviate gender dysphoria,” the researcher reiterated.

From what I've read in research papers and press articles, Sweden is leading the way on its critical evaluation of puberty blockers. Perhaps this strange way of presenting the findings was to make the conclusion more palatable to the audience. It must be very unusual for a science conference to hear that "we found evidence that it has the exact opposite effect on well-being than we've told all the patients".

ArabeIIaScott · 04/05/2023 20:53

'An individual may publicly claim that the earth is flat, that vaccines cause autism, that climate change does not exist, or that gender is binary, without being oppressed or persecuted. With caveats: like any other right, this right of freedom of speech is not absolute. Moreover, if it constitute a demonstrable threat to another individual, and incite hate speech or violence, then intervention must be taken. '

Cripes. That's an interesting list of 'wild ideas' to elide, isn't it?

Neatly suggesting that the fact we are a sexually dichotomous species is akin to flat earthism.

Thingybob · 04/05/2023 21:03

out of 30 patients potentially eligible to participate in a 17-year follow-up study—four had declined to participate, two had detransitioned, one who had not detransitioned expressed serious regrets about vaginoplasty, and two [...] died by suicide.

The article fails to mention that the patients in this follow up accessed the Dutch gender identity service as children and adolescents.

How can anyone put a positive spin on these outcomes?

NicCageisnotNickCave · 04/05/2023 21:22

ArabeIIaScott · 04/05/2023 20:53

'An individual may publicly claim that the earth is flat, that vaccines cause autism, that climate change does not exist, or that gender is binary, without being oppressed or persecuted. With caveats: like any other right, this right of freedom of speech is not absolute. Moreover, if it constitute a demonstrable threat to another individual, and incite hate speech or violence, then intervention must be taken. '

Cripes. That's an interesting list of 'wild ideas' to elide, isn't it?

Neatly suggesting that the fact we are a sexually dichotomous species is akin to flat earthism.

Darwin was a transphobe, bigot!

Faffertea · 04/05/2023 21:44

So much to unpick from that excellent report. Thank you for sharing OP.

Im still mulling it over but what I’m really struggling with as a medic is how people supposedly grounded in evidence based practice and the scientific method can somehow seem to just switch that off when it comes to this subject. They are wilfully blind to the evidence and must know therefore that they at least run a serious risk of causing harm. So why do they continue? Hubris? Fear? Because they don’t care? Why are supposedly intelligent, caring people completely abandoning the very foundations of how healthcare (in the broad sense) is practiced?

Clinicians may feel that they are being accused of not caring about their patients. Of course, most of them do care—very much so. This deeply held sense of being a caring provider lets criticisms bounce off. But care can be misguided. Our best intentions can mislead—and harm. That is what has happened in the field of ‘gender-affirming care.’

This is striking for me.

RedToothBrush · 04/05/2023 21:46

Thingybob · 04/05/2023 21:03

out of 30 patients potentially eligible to participate in a 17-year follow-up study—four had declined to participate, two had detransitioned, one who had not detransitioned expressed serious regrets about vaginoplasty, and two [...] died by suicide.

The article fails to mention that the patients in this follow up accessed the Dutch gender identity service as children and adolescents.

How can anyone put a positive spin on these outcomes?

Transition was not a positive for 30% of patients.
But hey 70% don't seem too bad

6% killed themselves.
But cracking, the other 94% are still alive.

Hagosaurus · 04/05/2023 23:02

And of those approx 70% who don’t seem so bad, some of them now identify as ‘cis’ ie they have also detransitioned

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