Some contrapoint quotes.

[PurpleBugz]

https://twitter.com/dunn_dufault4/status/1651307344213442588?s=46

Just wanted to share this.

Dunno if I linked this right. The bit I found interesting was from about 46mins-54min or something.

I discovered contrapoint from witch trials of JKR podcast. So watched this video when it popped up on my Twitter feed.

To quote (I typed as he spoke so don't hold me to the exact accuracy). "there is a certain level of delusion that often accompanies the early stages of transition and I do think it's unfortunate that 90% of people being very vocal about being trans will be people in that stage ..... [you move on with you life] ...leaves you with this unfortunate situation where the people talking about trans don't really know what they are talking about "

"I've learned what transitioning actually means, what is possible, what is not possible......I feel like there was a kind of mania almost that prompts the start of transition where you sort of think that anything is possible ... I feel like now there's a sort of disillusionment that sets in a few years in where you realise the things that hormones are gonna change have changed and at this point you know you've kind of ruined your life. You've ruined your life as it was, your relationship to your family is irreparable.. you have socially started over and you have to deal with the fact that no you will never be a cis person of the gender you identify with and so you are stuck in this very difficult existence.... I just feel very negative about being trans lately ..... I don't wanna be trans it sucks....I feel like I'm stuck with it. Defying the established social order is hard. Violating the most basic categories of human society has negative consequences. You learn that a lot of people are really shallow. You learn to cope"

I feel so sorry for this person to feel this way. I am struck they choose to use the word violate here. And I think if this is all learned post transition how could there have been informed consent?

I imagine that as the euphoria wears off one of the hardest things must be relationships. How is it possible to have a relationship (platonic or otherwise) with someone that requires you to pretend to believe they are something they are not.

I imagine that more mature transitioners (past the stage of blue haired protests at uni) must often be rather lonely.

'Lesbianism came naturally to me'

FFS.

I still can't reconcile the fact that society is literally standing by and watching some of the least suitable people in the world gaslighting children and persuading them they might be the wrong sex.
Watching medics experimenting on children with untested drugs and brutal often unsuccessful surgery. Drugs that negatively impact on brain & body development.
Teachers psychologically experimenting on children, telling them they're the opposite sex - even at primary schools and blowing apart the mind / body reconciliation that's a part of puberty.
Everyone standing by watching children giving up their future fertility - and cheering them on.

It's like living in a terrible dystopia where children are the target and adults do nothing to protect them.

I’d like to see the consent forms for these medical and surgical interventions. Having been a cancer nurse specialist for the last 20 years of my career, obtaining patient consent for both curative and palliative oncology treatments was a very lengthy process, they had to be aware of all the potential side-effects. Some patients then declined the treatments because of their associated risks. Of course some people eagerly nodded their way through the forms, desperate for any treatment, any hope at all, that’s what desperate people do, but part of my job was helping people come to informed decisions.

@ArabeIIaScott

'Lesbianism came naturally to me'

FFS.

I see you FFS and raise you a FOTTFSOFATFOSM

although I will include in that every single bloomin person who affirmed and confirmed and otherwise encouraged him that a heterosexual man choosing to date homosexual women from now on was a plan without flaws that would undoubtedly lead him to live a happy fulfilled life.

Bitterness, disappointment, frustration and loneliness are shocking outcomes no-one could possibly have predicted.

Yup. It's almost like the feminists were right all along, isn't it?

Not holding my breath for the apology, though.

I’ve also seen suggestions that trans people often continue to have more surgeries.

It's very key here that treatment for body dysmorphia does not include surgery as it's well documented that the focus shifts to the next issues they have with their body and the plastic surgery continues.

The treatment involves very intensive cbt and therapy

Just as a anorexia takes over an individual until they die.

It's also been discussed here before that there's a shoulder operation that's been found to be no better than placebo effect. Surgery for gender dysphoria can be seen to exert a placebo effect, not least as being cared for medically in the moment can be more effective than mental health support. However when normal life resumes the mental health issues can return.

Funny timing as I'm currently listening to the Witch Trials (side note: I've never listened to a podcast before and I'm loving listening rather than reading as I can be a bit lazy. But yes, what an excellent thing they are. Why didn't I try one sooner

) and just finishing episode 5 which is mainly an interview with Natalie.

So much selective picking out on what JKR says. Very much downplaying the awful Twitter treatment JKR received even though Natalie says they can relate to what that's like.

But this thread - they mentioned several times "denied access to healthcare " as if a trans person is denied a gp appointment on their trans status. But that's not it is it? It's being told no, you can't just have the drugs you want without a good chat first. Or, let's talk about why you think removing your breasts would make you feel like the authentic you.

Whereas for the average Joe on the street who hasn't been listening to this debate, hearing trans people are apparently being denied their equivalent every day healthcare you would be "oh gosh that poor person how awful for them ".

Interesting spinning that's for sure

This is a more general point than specific to this issue, but I think we all love the idea of some type of a re-birth being possible, to wipe the slate clean, to become something new and different and full of potential.

And if this transformation is stage by stage, the fact that there are further stages creates an optimistic mood. Only when there are no further stages to save and plan for will reality set in.

I have a chronic health complaint which is not truly dangerous, just annoying, except for the flare-ups which are nasty, and currently without good medical treatments.

Whenever I read about some possible new thing which might work (each grass type x! stand on your head every morning while singing your national anthem!) I always feel excited and optimistic for a while.

Then it turns out to be something almost as silly as what I put in the parenthesis. But the placebo effect makes me feel much better for a short time.

In the main these appear to be lonely people, having been successfully isolated from their families and friends in a lot of instances, who seem to spend a lot of time isolated. I imagine being in hospital, being cared for, being tended to, being the centre of attention, being affirmed, must all be very comforting to a certain section of people. But that level of care and love from external sources doesn't get replicated when they are well and out of the hospital. It would be tempting as the effects wear off to contemplate further procedures in order to recreate the warm fuzzy feelings.

I think this person is a bit more on the Dylan Mulvaney end of the spectrum. Transitioning has boosted their profile and they are open about not having dysphoria.

But that level of care and love from external sources doesn't get replicated when they are well and out of the hospital.

Sadly yes.

And they get a lot of admiration at first which I'm sure slowly wanes - unless they've a platform where it's essentially their career.

It's useful to trans medical industry to keep the pride narratives of acceptance, bravery yadda yadda going.

I've seen a few of Natalie's videos (far more than I can stomach from most Genderists).

She's clever and a lot more intellectually honest about the Feminist position than most Genderists. She actually engages with our arguments.

I think eventually she'll realise that 'her side' isn't on her side at all. What she does with that is another question.

That said, donquixote, ContraPoints seems to have been less intellectually honest in the recent 2-hour video criticising the Witch Trials of JK Rowling podcasts: https://quillette.com/2023/04/26/the-witch-trials-of-jk-rowling-continue/

I just went to have a wee look.

1 hour 55 minutes?!

Ugh. The one I quoted was long too. Now I will have to watch this one too to retain my argument I came to my conclusions with due diligence.

I must say TERFs are more concise and easy to follow.

That said, donquixote, ContraPoints seems to have been less intellectually honest in the recent 2-hour video criticising the Witch Trials of JK Rowling podcasts

I admit to only having watched a few of her videos. I might have a look at that one, depending whether I can dredge up the will.

I would also say that finding her more constructive than most Genderists is not a high bar.

Contra sits on an actual throne?

is it made of lies?

I wonder if that's why there are soo many 'trans' days. I mean Pride goes on and on. You have trans days of visibility, trans days of rememberance, latterly a trans day of vengeance. In fact googling produces at least 20.

Plus the attempts to colonise international woman's day. Even mothers day.

Keep the kettle boiling.

Exactly. They're perpetuating the very sexism they claim to be defying.

I mean to add that it isn't surprising they're perpetuating sexism - the whole reason to transition is sexist.

And most transwomen certainly don't seem to have any affinity at all with actual women. All their emotions towards females appear negative (NATWALT, obvs).

I watched a bit of Contra's Witch Trials video and the narcissism is off the scale. Such a contrast to JK Rowling who is insightful, self-reflective and compassionate.