Is Diane Abbott right that only Black people experience racism and other ethnic groups experience prejudice?

[IwantToRetire]

Diane Abbott has been suspended as a Labour MP pending an investigation into a letter she wrote about racism to the Observer, the party has said.

The politician said "many types of white people with points of difference" can experience prejudice, in a letter published on Sunday.

But they are not subject to racism "all their lives", she said.

She later tweeted to say she was withdrawing her remarks and apologised "for any anguish caused".

Labour said the comments were "deeply offensive and wrong".

Suspending the whip means Ms Abbott will not be allowed to represent Labour in the House of Commons, where she will now sit as an independent MP.

In the letter, she wrote that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people "undoubtedly experience prejudice", which she said is "similar to racism".

She continued: "It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice.

"But they are not all their lives subject to racism.

"In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus.

"In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote.

"And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships."

She had been responding to a comment piece in the Guardian questioning the view that racism "only affects people of colour".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65365978

We can argue all we like, but facially, people from far east Asian heritage are easily spotted as are those Sub-Saharan African heritage as being of non-European in heritage. I think that means they are likely to be subject to a different type of prejudice which I think is more aptly called ‘racism’, compared with, say, Gypsies, who are a recognised ethnic group, who do suffer prejudice for it, but I don’t think it qualifies as racism.

I know someone of half-Armenian, half White British heritage and when he had a sun tan, he was abused with the P- word because he was pretty indistinguishable from people from the subcontinent.

I’m not particularly invested in this, just that I think Abbot was trying to make a distinction about being easily spotted without any paraphernalia or prior knowledge.

I think her reasons for doing so are a bit suspect since Stamford Hill is in her ward.

she is a very stupid and deeply racist woman

@ValancyRedfern
''In Europe we would never view Spanish people as a different race to e.g. French people.''

Your statement is actually rather offensive. French people can be of black, Asian or Arabic heritage....

Not every French person is white. Same with the Spanish.

It is a nationality that brings together people from different ethnic backgrounds.

Sad that we have not moved on from that.

how on earth she has been allowed to remain in the labour party so long is just bind blowing.

Anyone remember when she said the NHS should not be recruiting from scandinavia because she didn't want blond haired blue eyed nurses?

Exactly.

I believe what she is trying to say is a spin on the idea that racism against black people was institutionalized, whereas racism against other groups was more of a social belief of many people.

I don't really accept that formulation of racism vs prejudice, or that it is something that you can draw a hard hierarchy around. But even if I did, she's not correct that no other groups had institutionalized elements or racial prejudice in their history.

I'm inclined to think part of the issue might be poor historical knowledge. She's not even talking about just the UK, or just today, but the past in a number of countries. But why just those countries, or the 20th century? It's very arbitrary. You don't have to go very far in the study of history to discover that institutionalized disadvantaging of various groups has gone on all over the world, for thousands of years, and is certainly not confined to one "race" nor are the people who benefit all from one group.

But a lot of this kind of modern anti-racist ideology is very confused and ahistorical anyway, it almost seems to obscure accurate representations of reality.

Quite

I'm glad this crap is being stopped. I've been told numerous times now that it's impossible to be racist towards white people and I'm so sick of it. Try being Eastern European in this country.

“I know someone of half-Armenian, half White British heritage and when he had a sun tan, he was abused with the P- word because he was pretty indistinguishable from people from the subcontinent.’

But according to your definition of race and racism, this would be prejudice even though your friends skin tone is just as easily spotted as a black African’s skin tone, or a Mestizo from Mexico or an Aboriginal from Australia. But only one of these identical incidents would qualify as “racism” by your definition. Can you not see how inconsistent and unscientific that is?

I’m red too, and the mother of a redhead.

I’ve was bullied for it in school but not since and as far as I know redheads as a group have never been genocided or enslaved so I’m deffo not in agreement with Diane on this! Technically being a red is a gene mutation and while it’s somewhat common in a few countries (Ireland, UK, Norway, a pocket in Russia) I doubt you could gather up enough of us to make systemic oppression worthwhile…

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/25/mapping-redheads-which-country-has-the-most

Abbot’s constituency contains some of Stamford Hill and neighbours the rest of it so she must be aware of the multiple physical assaults indicted on members of the London ultra orthodox Jewish community of late? I suppose you could wriggle around and claim it’s religious hatred rather than racist
hatred but ethnicity and faith are so intertwined in the ultra orthodox communities that it’s not a convincing argument.

Britain is a multi cultural country and we really do need to get a handle on the reality that racist crimes are not all going to be white perp/black victim or we risk letting down some of our most marginalised citizens…

https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/01/20/you-are-vermin-londons-orthodox-jews-targeted-in-latest-wave-of-antisemitic-hate-crimes/

@DemiColon You've explained this far better than I could.
It really irks me when people look for things to prove their point, ignoring everything else. There is far more to history than the events she talked about and even within those historical periods, there was so many layers to it. Many, many poor white people in apartheid SA were treated just as badly, if not worse than the black people. They weren't accepted by either.
It really wasn't that long ago when To Let signs would say no dogs, no blacks no Irish.
I'm glad this BS idea that racism is reserved for one race is ending.

She’s coming out with very similar shit to Whoopi Goldberg’s comments. How about, in a time of swiftly rising anti-semitism, that is in-fact impacting her own constituency, she just doesn’t.

The article she was responding to (link in the OP) is very hard to disagree with. It's certainly the easy stance for a politician to take i.e. the issue is v complex and not just black vs white.

However, I have been told before similar to what DA said - white people don't experience racism- so i know that is a popular opinion in certain circles, along the lines of BLM + white privilege, etc.
I'm white, from a minority. I haven't had it easy but I will never know what it is like to be treated as a black.

No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that there isn’t as big a difference between someone from Europe and the Subcontinent as there is between someone from sub-Saharan Africa and Europe. Race isn’t just skin about colour, there are also different facial features, that’s why black person with albinism looks different from a white person with albinism.

Wouldn't you say the security required outside of synagogues says it all? I'm struggling to understand her comments. Jewish people were slaughtered...it really doesn't get much worse than that.

Abbott has always been a thorn in the side of Labour. I suspect Keir is happy to see her downfall. She was always completely out of her depth politically, and made things up as she went along.

Can you be racist against white people?

The answer is yes as DA spectacularly failed to see given that many Jews have a white skin tone.

I think what DA was trying to argue with an extremely poor argument was that racism is in modern UK triggered by skin colour and we should have perhaps a language devoted to that particular for of racism. There may be even those that would argue that if you can be racist against white people then racism become not meaningless but certainly less focused as a form of hard they may lead to some arguing racism is over exaggerated.

When institutional racism is mentioned it often involved a pernicious focus on the those with afro-carribean background and if society needs to tackle does a broad definition of racism help (even though obviously true)?

I may have misunderstood, but having read the very interesting article which seems to indicate that a greater proportion of Irish people have reported racial assaults than black people in the UK, I get the impression that Diane is trying to minimise the findings as they don't fit with her bloody awful agenda and exposing her anti- semitism and utter contempt for anyone who is not black.

Sorry should have said can be triggered....

@Fizzadora

Does this mean we need an overarching term 'racism' but sub divide racism into different types as each form though hideous will have particular nuances. For instance is the BLM movement racist in that it does not include all forms of racism? It's a difficult question but perhaps racism against different groups need to be challenged with slightly different approaches?

I believe what she is trying to say is a spin on the idea that racism against black people was institutionalized, whereas racism against other groups was more of a social belief of many people

Well, it’s basically the case. In the US (couldn’t find data for UK) 37% of white households make over $100k per year, compared to 22% of black households, and 44% of US Jewish households. So basically if you’re born into a Jewish family you’re literally TWICE as likely to have a rich/affluent upbringing as if you’re born into a black family. So clearly there is some difference in the form/expressions of racism experienced by different minority groups. Many individuals Jewish people (and many other minority groups) most certainly experience racism, but it’s a stretch to argue they experience institutional racism to the extent that black people do/have.

I think what is rather telling is (assuming the quotes are correct) that she actually went as far as including "examples" of how Black people have been discriminated against, eg sit at the back of the bus, no right to vote, slavery all of which are true and shouldn't have happened.

But in creating this list and not acknowledging for instance the Holocaust, the ethnic cleansing of Travelling people, she is ignoring or deminishing the history of other groups of people who have experienced racism.

I cant believe she really thinks these somehow dont count.

And even if it was / is something to do with how specifically white Europeans have behaved as racists, colonisers, the ruling class, asset strippers of other countries natural resources, this is true of not just those of African or Afro Caribbean heritage but other groups.

I would like to understand what it is / was she is trying to say.

Not to agree with her but to understand her reasoning.

And as others have said, she has been treated so appallingly in her career, and has achieved so much in being the first Black woman MP, this seems such an unthought out response to the article that talked about the level of racism experienced by other groups. As though reporting that fact made her feel her experience of racism was being dismissed, unacknowledged.

I think what she said was extremely disappointing. Two other things can also be true at the same time; that condemning anti-Black racism and pointing out the different dynamics to other groups does not automatically mean that someone is anti-Semitic or anti-GRT.

how is she still allowed to even sit in parliament after spouting that rubbish about NHS should not recruit from Scandinavia, as she didnt want blond haired blue eyed nurses, who she said would not be capable of taking the temperature of a black person

she is one of the main reasons people dont vote labour