Kids are entitled to gender-fun

[ValuePartnership]

A Kansas bill to impose restrictions on access to public bathrooms and stop transgender people changing the name or gender on their driver’s licenses have passed the state legislature and will likely be passed over the governor’s expected veto. Rights advocates claimed the bills would legally erase transgender people and deny recognition to non-binary, gender fluid and gender non-conforming people.

“I am what they are scared of,” Ian Benalcazar, a 13-year-old NE Kansas transgender boy said during a recent LGBTQ rights rally outside the statehouse. “I am a human being and I deserve to be treated as such, and I deserve to be happy.” Carson Rapp, a Wichita-area 15-year-old who identifies as bigender or embracing “both more masculine and more feminine traits” said that expressing one’s gender identity does not harm others. “Why stop people from doing it if they’re just being themselves and having fun?” Carson said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/05/kansas-republicans-majority-governor-veto-trans-bathroom-bill

What's so clear is that these kids are totally unready to decide to have their bodies deranged by experimental puberty-blockers, mutilated by mercenary surgeons, and sterilised by lifelong drug treatment. Such fun!

This issue has become a culture war shitshow and it is tiring. There is no nuance to any discussion.

The alignment of many so-called feminists with the extreme right in American politics is alarming to me.

Are we really supposed to be cheering on Kansas republicans now?

I think as with many things, the Americans take things too far.

The republicans are extreme on one side and on this occasion the Biden administration is also very extreme.

I don't know the details of the bill or any other bills in other States but I suspect I wouldn't fully agree.

In the UK we simply need the Equality clarified to make it clear that women are entitled to single sex spaces and they mean biological sex.

But America terrifies me and I am glad I don't live there.

If the progressive/left too up the correct positions on these issues, it would not be a Republican/right affair!

This 100%. There is absolutely no nuance on anything of importance.

I believe this is the (very short) bill in question:

http://kslegislature.org/li/b2023_24/measures/documents/sb180_enrolled.pdf

The bill sounds a mess

stop transgender people changing the name or gender on their driver’s licenses

I don’t object to either of those things being changed, particularly names. Why shouldn’t people be called what they like?

I object to sex being changed on identity documents of course

this is a perfect example of the famous Venn diagram and how superficially the views of GC feminists can kind of, almost look like those of social conservatives (if you’re determined to have a really bad take)

This tedious insistence on allying women and feminists with the American right is tedious and childish. It's also been done to death on here.

Stop the dodgy adults telling children they might be born in the wrong body and that drugs and surgery will fix them, get them out of schools and sort out the Equality Act. What America does is up to them and nothing to do with UK feminists - no matter how often some try to insist it is.

That looks pretty sensible? The sort of clarification we need for EQ10 basically.

Nothing to stop a person expressing their gender identity as long as they use gender words to self describe (eg transfeminine transmasculine) rather than sex based words (eg man & woman).

Are you saying it is the left's fault that you are cheering on the Kansas Republicans?

Usually the correct position in a culture war is neither side.

That actually looks completely reasonable I think

it also doesn’t prevent anyone changing the name or gender on their driver’s licence

The Kansas legislature has been busy:

women's single sex sport: http://kslegislature.org/li/b2023_24/measures/documents/hb2238_00_0000.pdf

gender reassignment medicine: http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2023_24/measures/documents/sb26_enrolled.pdf

Both of these are also on the short side.

What do you think is wrong with the bill?

bigender

Citizens of Blefuscu (big-enders) expressing their superiority over Lilliput (small-enders)

Reading those children's views it sounds like they're just children with interests and they don't fall into a category based on rigid gender stereotypes, just like most people. Don't most people have a mix of 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits (as dictated by stereotypes)?

How is a bill going to stop someone being happy with their personality when it sounds like they're just like most other people with a personality?

Why have gender on a driving licence at all? What have internal feelings of masculinity or femininity got to do with either driving or identification? Gender should simply not be on a driving licence. It should be sex. If they are using the word ‘gender’ as a synonym for sex then this should be defined and then your diving licence should reflect your sex but really they should just change it to ‘sex’ to avoid confusion. And in either case, you should not be able to change it.

Changing name legislation should be the same for everyone, transgender status is irrelevant. If a boy wants to be called Sue…

Politics and political alignment has long been shifting; looking at everything from a traditional left-right perspective is not very useful any more. And just because someone is a conservative, a Republican or a Tory it doesn't make them evil or essentially the enemy. All of us are a compex mix and there will be some people you agree with with on one issue but disagree with on another. Tribalism negates nuance and subtlety and demands everyone be on exactly the same page at all times.

Culture and values are now overall more important for many people than traditional bread and butter issues or the politics of social class.

Usually the correct position in a culture war is neither side.

Which is exactly where the vast majority of GC feminists sit.

Not on the side of the anti-women left wing (who want to enforce gender sterotypes, remove sex-based rights and protections, and don't view women as people).

Not on the side of the anti-women right wing (who want to enforce gender stereotypes, remove abortion rights and bodily autonomy, and don't view women as people).

I "picked a side" long before the Republicans/right wingers were even discussing this because I believe gender ideology threatens women's rights and harms children. My position immediately put me on the opposite side to the radical left.

Do you think I should change my position now because some other people, whose politics I wouldn't ordinarily agree with, are on the same side as me but have very different motives?

Am I obliged to remain neutral to avoid being accused of "stoking the culture war' or guilt by association?

The correct position has to be firmly rooted in reality and I will not pretend that the binary nature of sex and the legal protections which arise from that fact are nuanced. Believers in gender ideology can live how they please but they cannot compel me to share their faith.

The 13 year old in the OP sounds a bit like my daughter. Why is it a 'trans thing' not to stick to rigid gender roles?

I'm sick to death of the culture wars. The left can do one with it's attempts to tar those who have concerns over impacts on women & children as right wing religious nut jobs.

Why doesn't the 'left' care about kids like my daughter who is autistic and vulnerable to this shit?

Oh my gosh, I'm sure there was a thread recently where it was agreed a transboy would never choose the name "Ian" and yet here we are, America.

Sorry, not the point of the thread I know.

How does knowing you can't change sex 'erase trans people'?

I thought they were changing 'gender' not sex, and male/female aren't genders.

Carson Rapp, a Wichita-area 15-year-old who identifies as bigender or embracing “both more masculine and more feminine traits” said that expressing one’s gender identity does not harm others. “Why stop people from doing it if they’re just being themselves and having fun?

Again, expressing ones PERSONALITY is fine, perfectly normal, no one gives a shit.

The harm comes from people thinking their made up 'gender identity' entitles them to access things meant for those of the opposite sex.

Believing that your personality or feelings should decide what sex category you belong in is batshit.

I will say the quote by the 13 YO - “I am a human being and I deserve to be treated as such, and I deserve to be happy.” does sound like something they've outright copied from an adult...

its a shame, things do feel a bit wild with it all at the moment.

It's the conflation of gender and sex AGAIN. No one cares if you feel more masculine or feminine - that's got nothing to do with sex.

I think for a lot of these teenagers the whole thing is largely about "having fun" and belonging to a group, like being a goth or super into a particular fandom. Of course the Official Discourse can't admit that, so it all gets tied up with the "we're so oppressed!" stuff, meaning you get confused kids thinking that the government insisting on a particular letter on your driving licence is akin to making blue hair and glitter punishable by death.

This isn't a culture war. It's (regrettably) a battle to uphold facts, truth and the safeguarding of children and women.

Handwaving this away as a culture war ignores the damage being done to so many.