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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mr Bragg making an utter arse of himself again

55 replies

JeanRondeausMadHair · 18/04/2023 13:15

https://twitter.com/billybragg/status/1647690008139014145

Replies are both hilarious and heartening.

https://twitter.com/billybragg/status/1647690008139014145

OP posts:
JoodyBlue · 18/04/2023 15:19

I think a nod of appreciation to Birdy is in order. He has been hideously patronising to her and she drew him out so cleverly. Birdy Flowers

RaininginDarling · 18/04/2023 15:24

JoodyBlue · 18/04/2023 15:19

I think a nod of appreciation to Birdy is in order. He has been hideously patronising to her and she drew him out so cleverly. Birdy Flowers

Yes, she's been great! I wouldn't have the patience myself.

JoodyBlue · 18/04/2023 15:26

She does everyone a service. He is influential unfortunately, and so to draw him out and hold up a mirror like that is great work!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/04/2023 15:41

It took me a while to work out what he was getting at because I couldn’t bring myself to believe he is so ignorant as to not know the difference between queer theory and gay rights.

Malvarrosa · 18/04/2023 15:44
GIF by Descomplica

So, I hear you're a neoliberal now, Billy.

zanahoria · 18/04/2023 16:01

There is nowt as queer as queer theory

zanahoria · 18/04/2023 16:06

Excellent

don’t know much about (womens) history 🎵
🎵don’t know much about queer theory🎵

🎶but I do know 2+2 is 5🎵

And they all cheered. Whoop whoop

https://twitter.com/HatHeaded/status/1647730462310252558

https://twitter.com/HatHeaded/status/1647730462310252558

LlynTegid · 18/04/2023 16:10

@WuTangGran MN wants women to be safe.

AwaAnRaffleYersel · 18/04/2023 16:22

LlynTegid · 18/04/2023 16:10

@WuTangGran MN wants women to be safe.

Aye.

and some MeN don’t.

TheBiologyStupid · 18/04/2023 16:50

HagoftheNorth · 18/04/2023 13:30

Oh that’s funny! Thank you OP
Guessing Bragg never came back (didn’t get to the end)

Nope, he didn't.

What a patronising idiot he is.

dapsnotplimsolls · 18/04/2023 18:47

I might have sniggered quite a bit at 'Willy Wag' 😁

Pudmyboy · 18/04/2023 23:03

dapsnotplimsolls · 18/04/2023 18:47

I might have sniggered quite a bit at 'Willy Wag' 😁

Me too! Came on here just to say that!🤭

SquidwardBound · 19/04/2023 06:55

WuTangGran · 18/04/2023 13:38

I read these threads and get confused. Does Mumsnet hate or like trans people?

Also ideas and practices are not the same as people.

Queer theory is just a jumble of ideas. Bad ones. Poorly evidenced, or not at all (because an expectation to demonstrate any truth is tyranny and so on).

Trans activism is a set of practices (often carried out by people acting on behalf of trans people and speaking for them) that seek change that (further) disadvantages women and girls. It’s a highly political movement steeped in ideology.

Objecting to those two things has, despite what TRAs insist, nothing to do with ‘hating trans people’. Or any of the hyperbolic claims in which disagreement with their ideological aims is decried as violence and genocide and other such nonsense.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 19/04/2023 07:16

Gosh, Billy Bragg’s blocked me. Anyone else?

highame · 19/04/2023 07:32

Billy Bragg - The Twazzock in Chief. Famous does not mean intelligent.

lifeissweet · 19/04/2023 08:26

NancyDrawed · 19/04/2023 06:26

Just thought I'd drop this here...

Limited Edition T-shirts

She's made mugs too!

Mr Bragg making an utter arse of himself again
RoyalCorgi · 19/04/2023 08:28

zanahoria · 18/04/2023 16:06

Excellent

don’t know much about (womens) history 🎵
🎵don’t know much about queer theory🎵

🎶but I do know 2+2 is 5🎵

And they all cheered. Whoop whoop

https://twitter.com/HatHeaded/status/1647730462310252558

That's very funny. Deserves a bit more traction than it's getting.

I wish celebrities would have a little think before they decide to share their ignorance with the world on Twitter, though I suppose it would be less fun if they did.

AutumnCrow · 19/04/2023 08:31

EmpressaurusOfCats · 19/04/2023 07:16

Gosh, Billy Bragg’s blocked me. Anyone else?

Not yet

Keepthetowel · 19/04/2023 08:50

im glad he posted that , because now I understand the links between queer theory and peodophillia . I thought it was something to do with being gay.

lifeissweet · 19/04/2023 09:02

Keepthetowel · 19/04/2023 08:50

im glad he posted that , because now I understand the links between queer theory and peodophillia . I thought it was something to do with being gay.

Only in as much as Queer Theory is about transgressing social norms and boundaries.

Obviously, the Gay Rights movement had to do this to be accepted. Women did too. We needed to shift views on acceptable conduct to be able to have bank accounts and vote.

Beyond that, it is all about abolishing all norms and boundaries - even the ones we need strengthening like the safeguarding of children.

When you see 'heteronormative' and 'cisnormative' bandied around as insults, that is queer theory in action. All that is 'normal' is to be challenged and pushed and 'queered'.

Wondered why kink is displayed in broad daylight at things like Pride? Or the rise of the Furry Community, or Drag Queens reading to
Children?

Queer theory.

EyesOnThePies · 19/04/2023 09:21

WuTangGran · 18/04/2023 13:38

I read these threads and get confused. Does Mumsnet hate or like trans people?

Mumsnet is not possessed of a Uni mind.

Personally I like loads of people who happen to be trans.
Have also worked with a few who are pains in the arse. That’s life.

I also do not believe that gender should replace sex when considering matters of sex based equalities.

And I do develop hated towards people who insult me, issue Twitter based rape or death threats, and as a male person tell me how to think and feel.

So conversely I would never insult, threaten or or shout down someone just because I disagree with them.

Billy Bragg a) chooses to tell women how he thinks they should think and b) has patronised and insulted a woman for asking him to explain something about which he has been shown to know nothing about.

Where is the hate?

IdaGoodnight · 19/04/2023 09:30

We’re assuming BB doesn’t understand QT. Its roots, its ideas, its applications. Perhaps he does. Perhaps he agrees with it all.

After all, he’s been banging on about it for quite a while now.

So, when BB chooses to tell me what he believes in / agrees with - I’ll believe him.

SquidwardBound · 19/04/2023 10:32

Yes. The concept of ‘normative’ has for some time now been presented as if it is inherently bad within academia. But… actually, it’s far more nuanced than that.

It all started out as a trying to make room for difference thing - broadening out social norms and changing practices that excluded people on the basis of disability, race, sex and so on.

But, things like queer theory seem to be obsessed with valorising ever more extreme ‘transgression’ - particularly sexualised transgression - and presenting anyone who isn’t up for fetishistic or niche stuff as ‘untight’ and ‘oppressive’.

Thing is, we live in a society. Social norms fulfil very important purposes in society. Boundaries are important - these can be absolute (hard no to pedophilia or rape in all circumstances, for example), spatial (fine in the privacy of your own home or within a specifically designated space, but no ok elsewhere, for example), temporal (no swimming after dark, for example) or otherwise variable depending on the circumstances, practices and purpose of the boundaries.

Democratic debate about those boundaries is important. But transgression, especially by groups at the extreme margins of the distribution, is not necessarily socially desirable. Societal changes which reduce attempt to discrimination in relation to some pretty commonplace stuff in society - race, sex, disability, age, sexuality - are desirable, but that doesn’t mean that anything should go.

For example, opening up the boundaries of what is considered ‘normal’ sexuality beyond married, heterosexual couples is definitely a good thing - sex outside marriage and LGB sex are pretty standard things. But the boundaries of what should be viewed as acceptable at all, and what should be acceptable privately and consensually, need to be carefully considered. Normativity around sex being an adult activity or a consensual activity is a very good thing. Similarly, normativity around acceptable times and places for activity and display related to sexuality is a good thing : what is ok in a swingers club is not ok in a school, for example

There is broad societal consensus around boundaries that simply should not be crossed there, and we should treat activism looking to transgress those boundaries as dangerous. Queer theory’s obsession with transgression and insistence that anyone who objects is bigoted and oppressive means that people who’ve been educated to fear accusations of bigotry and oppression are start to imagine that boundaries are inherently bad.

dcbc1234 · 19/04/2023 11:57

AwaAnRaffleYersel · 18/04/2023 16:22

Aye.

and some MeN don’t.

women and don't forget our children....also massively at risk