Brecon Beacons renamed - after a rapist

[Meadowfly]

I’m hoping I’m in a muddle here! I googled (because I’m a bit of a history nerd and I don’t know anything about ancient welsh history) Brychan Brycheiniog who the Brecon Beacons is being renamed after and he appears to have been a rapist! ://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/bios/brychbbg.html multiple sources say the same thing. Seems to have disappeared from Wikipedia though (I’m pretty sure it was included earlier today 🤔) and is not mentioned in the various newspaper columns about ‘ who was brychan brycheiniog?’ although these same columns have clearly referenced the same web pages, such as the link above, that come up on google .

I can’t quite get my head around the fact that the idea of beacons, an ancient communication and warning system is thought to be ‘not a good look’ (quote from national park representative) because of current carbon emissions, but changing the name to that of a rapist is somehow better!

According to Celtic sources - Welsh, Cornish and Breton and also Irish, since he was supposed to be the son of an Irish prince and a Welsh princess, also his name is most likely Irish - he was just the king of Brycheiniog through his wife's inheritance of the territory and considered a patriarch, though not a saint.

There is one story that his daughter Gwladys was abducted by a neighbouring king, making him an outraged father, not a rapist.

He was supposed to have had a number of children by various wives, including several saints.

If you are a history nerd then you'll know that the majority of 5th century history has little provenance behind it, and much story and myth. In addition you can't apply 21st century morality to prior centuries.

I wouldn't get agitated about 'rapists' of the time.

If your looking at ancient folktales to be socially acceptable, you’ll be looking for a long while.

You are aware that the anglicised verson "Brecon" also derives from this king's name?

A beacon is a giant bonfire, so Brecon Beacons invokes thought of LOTR when Gondor calls for help from Rohan so no, from an environmental p o v I can see their point. #nerd

No idea about the history of that king.

Brecon is a form of Brychan. It's not clear that he raped Banhadlwedd. The article says he 'took the poor girl by force', indicating that he raped her. Had he done this, in Wales, where women had far more rights than in what became England, he'd have been strung up by her male relatives. Taking her by force may mean he stole her away and that she was willing to go. He was a hostage, which did not mean he did not have servants or soldiers at his command. Rape and seduction in ancient stories are thoroughly mixed up, and it is difficult to disentangle one from the other. Also, the name has not been changed, just put into Welsh: Brecon Beacons means the peaks of Brychan. I think it's daft and woke and what it has to do with climate change Gok, but then the Senedd doesn't know what a woman is, does it, so the story can't have happened anyway, however it happened.

Brecon Beacons as a name is unattested before the very late 18th century, and even then was Brecknock Beacons - Brecknock being the Anglicisation of Brycheiniog, the name of the territory.

Bannau does indeed mean peaks - it's the plural of 'ban = peak, summit, top. Bannau Brycheiniog is a much older name.

It really just reclaiming the Welsh name.

Wales/Welsh was oppressed by England. Look up the current debate about the title Prince of Wales. A title awarded through History by the king to eldest child. Started after the King at the time killed the Prince of Wales and gave the title to his son as a sign of dominance over the Welsh.

It’s so odd that the reason given by the national parks was that they were changing the name because of climate change, when the other name has some equally dubious connections (obviously lost in the mists of time etc, along with the smoke). I’m not at all in favour of changing names or removing cultural artefacts to make history more palatable or to pretend it didn’t happen, I’m not suggesting that a more wholesome name would be better, what I dislike is dishonesty and pretence. Pretending that swapping one old name for another is somehow progressive or inclusive is ridiculous. Making a song and dance about the change without acknowledging that the new name has some uncomfortable aspects is disingenuous. Why are ancient carbon emissions more distressing to imagine than ancient violence against women? By all means revert to an older name if that’s what the majority want - but be honest about who / what he was.

You're still missing that the English name "Brecon" is the same origin as the Welsh name "Brycheiniog". That hasn't changed! The change is from the English "beacons" to the welsh version of "peaks".

You also cannot look at 5th century history and apply a modern interpretation to events described. As a PP has said, there is a lot of meaning that is different in a historical context, and a lot of claim and counter claim going on.

And, really, its more about reverting to just the Welsh name alone. It's always been called that in Welsh, just with the English alongside (or first in the past). Just like Mumbai used to be called Bombay.

I remember a story, possibly apocryphal, that following their defeat by Edward 1, the Welsh said they would only swear loyalty to somebody who was born in Wales and spoke no English. Edward agreed and promptly presented his newborn son who was born in Caernarfon and didn't speak any language. Bloody perfidious Norman's.

Rose - you’ve missed the point. I’m talking about how the national parks have presented this name change, not the rights or wrongs of different names. Why didn’t they say they don’t want to use the anglicised name because if that’s the reason? It’s the fact that they’ve identified one name as ‘problematic’ that opens the alternative up to scrutiny, and that then leads one to wonder why a name linked to burning logs is arbitrarily deemed not ok, but a name linked to rape (or at least the possibility of it) is fine. They’ve said that the idea of wooden burning beacons isn’t in keeping with ‘modern’ ideas, but an ancient semi-legendary king who ruled a millennium and a half ago, living by the rules of what was acceptable then (but aren’t now) is somehow progressive. It’s nonsense.

St. Brychan was sent as a hostage to the enemy's court when the opposing army proved stronger. Now a young man, St. Brychan was received well but soon fell in love with Banhadle's daughter, Banhadlwedd. Because the courtship was denied, he is said to have raped her.

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Brychan_of_Brecknock

(who knew there was an Orthodox Christian wiki or that this King seems to be considered a saint?)

@Meadowfly it's just marketing guff though, isn't it? They're trying to promote their net carbon neutral by 2035 plan, and are using this shift to Welsh only as a hook to promote it. That's all. It's a bit of a clunky attempt to wedge a modern issue into the historical origin of the welsh name versus the english one. I don't see the connection to outrage over the history of the ancient king Brychan who was probably legendary rather than real.

Roses - exactly, marketing ‘guff’ aka bollocks! I am in no way outraged over the actions of a, quite possibly mythical, king from eons ago, I AM outraged over the crap some people spout today in their ludicrous efforts to be ‘pure’ and their arbitrary decisions to label some things as ‘good’ and others as ‘not good’ when the truth is far more complex. They are choosing to omit part of one story to make it palatable, while implying that burning wood in the days when that was the only way of cooking is something to look down on. How patronising is that? It’s a ridiculous, dumbed-down way of making themselves feel like they are taking some sort of action, when in reality it’s just words.

Seems to have disappeared from Wikipedia though (I’m pretty sure it was included earlier today

I'm not sure which Wikipedia article you mean, OP. The one about the legendary king, Brychan Brycheiniog, hasn't been changed since last June:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brychan&action=history

There has been a lot of edit warring today at the Brecon Beacons and Brecon Beacons National Park pages over the name change, but nothing deleting any references to rape.

I went down a bit of a rabbit hole of ancient welsh history and legends so I lost track of what I’d seen where!!

@Meadowfly where did you see the national park giving the reason you said re climate? I haven't seen anything like that and I looked on their website today.

I like the name change. Anything that prompts me to investigate a fifth century story is fine by me.

The rapist thing is not something I can get worked up about.

Is it not just the Welsh translation ?

I’d be surprised if there were any 5th century noblemen who weren’t rapists to be honest.

It is the existing welsh name. It's not a direct translation though, the "Brecon Peaks" is what it means rather than "Brecon Beacons".

As a native Welsh speaker, I must take this moment to do a MASSIVE eyeroll.

No one, as far as I'm aware is 'changing the name' of anything. Such things are usually said by ill educated people who have a fret or panic as soon as English isn't enshrined in everything. This, funnily enough, is what they often accuse language enthusiasts or fanatics of, and which doesn't make any sense as English is a global dominant language and is not disparaging any time soon. Rest assured, there won't be any fines or brow beating if you use Brecon Beacons.

To call it a renaming is like claiming that the Australian tourist board or other such organisation would be renaming Ayers Rock to Uluru. It's not a renaming - it's simply the name of that landmark in the native language.

They are probably following Snowdonia's National Park's example, in just using the name when they promote the place or talk about it in official capacity.

Personally, I think the climate claim of theirs is just beyond silly.

disappearing any time soon*

Zonder: ‘The Brecon Beacons National Park is changing its name as a direct response to the climate and ecological crisis, the park’s CEO has said. Catherine Mealing-Jones, the park’s CEO, told the PA news agency: “Given that we’re trying to provide leadership on decarbonisation, a giant burning brazier is not a good look”’. From https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/ceo-welsh-people-brecon-beacons-b2320870.html?amp