Son asked “gender identity” for library card

[Weallgottachangesometime]

I opened a library card for my son yesterday. The librarian was asking him questions such as DOB etc. Then came the “diversity” questions. Only 2 though! So she asked my son “ what do you identify as…do you identify as a little boy”. My son replied no and the librarian looked at him expectantly. “Oh what do you identify as”? My son replied “a big boy”.

Well I laughed my head off. Told the librarian that gender identity doesn’t really mean anything to my son, but he certainly would never describe himself as “little” now he almost 8.

Honestly what a silly question to ask a young child and completely irrelevant to borrowing books. Interestingly she only asked gender identity his and ethnicity. Surely things like disability, neurodivergence etc would actually possibly be more relevant to using the library?

Interestingly I just opened a scratch (coding app) account for him. That asked Gender and gave options of boy, girl, non-binary and prefer not to answer.

No other questions other than age. Again…I’m wondering why “gender identity” would be relevant. And again surely things such as visual impairment would actual be useful information to adapt the softwar/app (not sure the right term) for peoples needs.

Whenever people have said “it’s everywhere” I always thought that’s was rubbish and all the gender stuff was mainly online. Last 2 days is making me question that.

With the coding app I imagine it's to tailor his adverts for recommended games/toys etc?

No need for it in a library 🤷🏻‍♀️

So very tired of all of this gender identification shit

No need for it in the app either. Why should toys and games be targeted based on sex.

Yeah I guess so 🤷🏻‍♀️ only thing I could think of in all honesty

I was asked for gender ID for all guests after visiting Disney last time. I entered mine as "gender is harmful", DH's as "he thinks gender is harmful too" and DD as "she doesn't know what gender ID is as she's 6 but her sex is female".
I'm weighing up complaining about a Lego store I went to on the same trip that gave tonnes of personalised nine-stripe rainbow options for the minifig outfits. I never mind a rainbow but I don't want to explain to DD why the rainbow with extra pink/blue/white isn't going on the printer, in front of a guy with a he/him name badge.

So she asked my son “ what do you identify as…do you identify as a little boy”. My son replied no and the librarian looked at him expectantly. “Oh what do you identify as”? My son replied “a big boy”.

That is a wonderful answer from your son! But I thought the DoE says children are not supposed to be given the idea they are in the wrong body - which this question from the librarian suggests as a possibility.

Would it be possible to formally complain, I wonder

An underlying principle of GDPR is that an organisation should only collect and keep information that is strictly necessary for providing whatever service they’re offering.

I don’t see how retaining the ‘gender identity’ of its clients is necessary for a library to lend out books.

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that If they are collecting personal information but not using it they are in breach of the data protection legislation.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/principles/

Surely things like disability, neurodivergence etc would actually possibly be more relevant to using the library?

Our very sensible children's librarian used to reduce our fines for holding onto books too long, as she recognised the difficulty autistic DS had in letting them go. One one memorable occasion he'd taken out three copies of the same Asterix book.

On a different note, my fairly deaf parent thought that 'How do you identify?' meant 'What identity documents do you have with you?'

I'm starting to think that people who know what the question means are in a minority.

Aren't they only supposed to record necessary data? Why is it necessary to ask an 8 year old this? It's age inappropriate.

he is correct. The question should be which sex are you?

My local authority -a Stonewall Diversity Champion - has recently added Mx as one of the titles that people can opt for when they are being registered/register themselves online.

It happens every year when we register for the library summer reading challenge. It's for age 5-12.

Libraries are full of genderism. Last year the Summer reading challenge asked children whether they identify as boy, girl, or something else.

Love this 😂

But it is anonymised. So I record the data we keep for the individual and then the “diversity data”, but I think the diversity data is anonymised. So it’s it linked to each person but they can see stats for the overall service user group.

They are asking for gender - so they are seeking data on how to gender stereotype the books and services they provide further.

I think for an eight year old it might be a bit confusing to ask that. But it's not that bad, it potentially is an opportunity to sit him down and familiarise him with the idea of gender, ask him what he thinks makes him feel like a little boy, etc without yet introducing the concept of changing gender identity or things that might confuse him a bit. The more he is aware of gender as a term the more accepting he will be when he is older of peers he meets that experience gender differently

We have spoken about sex, so he knows he is male and his sister is female, how reproduction works etc. we have also spoke about how anyone can wear, enjoy, call themselves whatever they want regardless of their sex. He is also aware that some people who are male want to dress and present like a female and vice versa. He knows he can wear what he wants etc - he wore a dress in to school for wear want you want say and we spoke about people like Harry styles who wear all sorts of style of clothes.

i don’t really feel anything beyond that is needed really.

@Weallgottachangesometime
That sounds great, just the right amount an 8 year old would be able to understand. It will definitely pay off you opening him up to knowing what sex and gender are when he's older and if he ever has friends who are transgender or questions his own gender this will make him feel comfortable to communicate to you about it. As an eight year old i would not have understood fully what being transgender means and how identity properly works, so I agree with your approach :)

Why would you ask an 8 year old boy what makes them "feel like a boy"? They don't need to feel like anything, they simply are a boy and so however they feel about anything is fine.

Discussing sex-based stereotypes and how embedded they are in society is always worthwhile doing in an age appropriate way with children.

In all honesty I haven’t really spoken to him about “gender” because I’m not sure I think it exists. I would happily speak to him about people feeling that they have something called a “gender identity” and that for some people it is very important. However if he said “what is gender” - I’m not sure what the explanation would be.

How do you explain what gender is?

Also I agree with the Previous poster I would never ask him what makes him feel like a boy, if I did I honestly don’t think he’s know how to reply. How is it possible to feel like a boy? also that suggests being a boy is a feeling and I don’t believe it is. I believe boy refers to his sex, as do the majority of people. He can be feminine and a boy, he can wear dresses and be a boy, he can call himself Sarah and be a boy.

Patronising moi?

I never used to ask for info like race, sex, disability, religion as I thought it was too intrusive. Our library service no longer ask these questions anyway or register titles like Miss/Mr. Just the basics but we never had gender identity, people could change their names and not register their sex.