Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Teachers ‘must tell parents about pupils’ gender changes’

33 replies

IwantToRetire · 16/04/2023 01:26

The non-statutory guidance on transgender pupils is being drawn up by the Department for Education and expected to be published within weeks. ... it states throughout the importance of biological sex in single-sex spaces. It also leans heavily on the findings and recommendations of Hilary Cass, the paediatrician who was tasked by the NHS with reviewing gender identity services for children and young people.

The prime minister is concerned about parental consent, and the guidance will set out in detail when schools must inform parents about their children questioning their gender.

It will be clear that certain triggers, such as a child changing their name, must involve parents and require their consent before the school can affirm their new identity.
Changes to uniform, such as a boy who begins wearing a skirt, are considered less obvious triggers but will nonetheless be highlighted in a similar way.

“Cass is really clear that social transition, so even wearing a skirt to school, using a different name, all of those things, are consequential; they are not a neutral thing to do,” a source said. “As someone responsible for safeguarding you have a duty to tell the parents.”

There is an exception, where information can be withheld from parents, for cases where the child is believed to be at risk of “significant harm” at home.

Full article in the Times at https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teachers-must-tell-parents-about-pupils-gender-changes-r3ch5qqwh

Also can be read by going to https://archive.ph and entering the Times URL.

Teachers ‘must tell parents about pupils’ gender changes’

Schools will have to tell parents if pupils who want to change their gender start using a new name or wearing a different uniform under new government guidance.The document, which is still being finalised, is also expected to make clear that children w...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teachers-must-tell-parents-about-pupils-gender-changes-r3ch5qqwh

OP posts:
Myalternate · 16/04/2023 07:25

Can’t come soon enough. I don’t have children at school yet, but was seriously considering Home Schooling for when that time comes.

thatsn0tmyname · 16/04/2023 07:34

Good. Children are harmed when adults don't communicate properly.

NoSquirrels · 16/04/2023 07:36

About bloody time.

Thingybob · 16/04/2023 07:40

Non Statutory so schools and lobby groups will be able to ignore the guidance?

While some campaigners believe schools should refrain from affirming or facilitating a child’s social transition until medical advice has been issued, Whitehall insiders say this is out of step with NHS guidance and the Cass review.

Where in the NHS guidance or the interim Cass findings does it support social transition without medical advice?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/04/2023 07:43

Non statutory guidance is pointless. It can’t be enforced & will just be ignored by schools already captured.

dunBle · 16/04/2023 07:53

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/04/2023 07:43

Non statutory guidance is pointless. It can’t be enforced & will just be ignored by schools already captured.

Not necessarily. I'm not a lawyer, but my take on it would be failure to follow statutory guidance would mean legal sanctions could be taken against them, which wouldn't be the case with non-statutory guidance, but it'd probably screw up their next OFSTED inspection.

ResisterRex · 16/04/2023 08:00

This definitely seems like one where we need the document to judge. What's the threshold for not telling parents? Is a section 47 referral type situation? That may be logical (although Cass seemed to have uncovered an astonishingly high rate of trans-identified children in her interim report) but what if it's not?

And what type of non-contact sports are being mixed? Because that could be a Trojan horse to undermining girls' rights to their own clubs as we've seen with the Girl Guides.

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:04

I’m a teacher and was liking forward to this guidance but from how it’s worded, nothing will change. Current safeguarding guidance suggests we work in the best interests of the child, IDEALLY with parents but “ideally” isn’t “you must”.

FWIW, I don’T feel comfortable with calling pupils by their preferred names/pronouns but I do because of this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11976891/Female-teacher-forced-apologise-saying-Good-afternoon-girls.html

Female teacher forced to apologise for saying 'Good afternoon, girls'

Bosses at the £20,000-a-year school told the teacher to deliver the mea culpa after her class complained that she said 'good afternoon, girls' at the start of a lesson.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11976891/Female-teacher-forced-apologise-saying-Good-afternoon-girls.html

MrsMurphyIWish · 16/04/2023 08:05

*looking

Roste · 16/04/2023 08:18

It’s a move in the right direction but if a child is at significant harm at home because of self expression, I hope the document states social services should be involved rather than expecting teachers to make themselves a target for such parents.

BonfireLady · 16/04/2023 09:37

Unfortunately I can't get the article to load on archive.ph but the excerpt from the OP is very encouraging. It being non-statutory feels odd. Is this so that it can come in more quickly, with statutory guidance to follow? Or do things not work like that?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/04/2023 10:39

Long overdue but until I see the details I'm not convinced that the Stonewall captured DfE will produce anything useful.

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 10:41

It’s a step in the right direction but sounds like detail is needed before deciding if it’s still too weak

ResisterRex · 16/04/2023 10:51

Here's a share token

Teachers ‘must tell parents about pupils’ gender changes’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ef466870-dbbc-11ed-b1e2-4c4ae98cfe2f?shareToken=59f77c9e7152f81b08595c63d4e79d25

WarriorN · 16/04/2023 13:35

Transgender trend thread - highlights a number of issues with the guidance. I'm also concerned about the potential for behaviour management around pronoun use for other pupils, as described in the thread. It's becoming an enormous can of worms.

twitter.com/transgendertrd/status/1647561601707376640?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/04/2023 19:07

WarriorN · 16/04/2023 13:35

Transgender trend thread - highlights a number of issues with the guidance. I'm also concerned about the potential for behaviour management around pronoun use for other pupils, as described in the thread. It's becoming an enormous can of worms.

twitter.com/transgendertrd/status/1647561601707376640?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Suspect there's a battle going on in the DfE with the sheer volume of trans extremists working there who have no interest whatsoever in safeguarding children or anything that challenges the trans orthodoxy and the silent majority who are finally speaking up.
Fudging this benefits nobody.

BonfireLady · 16/04/2023 20:22

ResisterRex · 16/04/2023 10:51

Here's a share token

Teachers ‘must tell parents about pupils’ gender changes’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ef466870-dbbc-11ed-b1e2-4c4ae98cfe2f?shareToken=59f77c9e7152f81b08595c63d4e79d25

Thank you for sharing. Just read the article.
Although it sounds like they fall short of the mark (thank you for sharing the Transgender Trend analysis @WarriorN ), it's a really positive step that they need to talk to parents and gain agreement before doing any social transition.
When I found out that my daughter's school was making these changes and not informing parents, I was pretty shocked. I don't know numbers but it was certainly enough that the staff member who mentioned it said that it was difficult to keep up with it all.

I'm assuming there will be lots of disclosure around the country shortly, where schools contact parents and let them know what has happened. Given the volumes that we'll be talking about here, it could cause quite a ripple of awakening across all the mainstream press.

MarshaBradyo · 16/04/2023 20:47

BonfireLady · 16/04/2023 20:22

Thank you for sharing. Just read the article.
Although it sounds like they fall short of the mark (thank you for sharing the Transgender Trend analysis @WarriorN ), it's a really positive step that they need to talk to parents and gain agreement before doing any social transition.
When I found out that my daughter's school was making these changes and not informing parents, I was pretty shocked. I don't know numbers but it was certainly enough that the staff member who mentioned it said that it was difficult to keep up with it all.

I'm assuming there will be lots of disclosure around the country shortly, where schools contact parents and let them know what has happened. Given the volumes that we'll be talking about here, it could cause quite a ripple of awakening across all the mainstream press.

I really hope there is transparency from now on

On another thread a poster claimed that the school would still not have to do this in some cases (dc at risk)

I find this disconcerting as who is determining this and how is it done

ResisterRex · 16/04/2023 21:15

This says it'll be published in May:

"Expected to be published in May, it will apply to all state and independent schools in England and is intended to provide clarity on how schools should approach safeguarding children with gender dysphoria.

There are growing concerns among MPs and campaigners that schools are adopting inconsistent approaches to socially transitioning pupilss_ and many appear to be neglecting their safeguarding duties.
Rishi Sunak, the prime minister, is personally concerned about parental consent and the guidance will set out in significant detail when schools must inform parents about children questioning their gender."

And there's a DfE quote:

"A Department for Education spokesperson said: “Our guidance on minimum standards clearly sets out a school’s legal obligation to provide separate toilets for boys and girls aged eight years or over, except where the toilet facility is intended for use by one pupil at a time and can be secured from the inside.”

“The Education Secretary is working closely with the Minister for Women and Equalities to publish guidance for schools for the summer term on how to respond to children who are questioning their gender identity.”"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/16/schools-government-guidance-safeguarding-gender-identity/

WarriorN · 16/04/2023 22:17

Unfortunately I think we know there's a battle going on there MrsOvertonsWindow.

After watching triggernomentry this evening with Jamie Reed I'm more concerned than ever about the impact schools have on all this.

ResisterRex · 17/04/2023 10:11

Signs of a change? Again, the detail of the actual document is needed:

Rishi Sunak appoints expert group to deliver maths pledge — watch live

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9ad18bc8-dce6-11ed-a0a8-657f9e54fc6a?shareToken=7e80e2951fec8f1f580729abf86cd9df

"Schools have been urged by the education secretary to use a “good dose of common sense” when navigating issues to do with trans students (George Grylls writes).

Gillian Keegan said it was “absolutely fine” for teachers to greet students at single-sex schools by saying, ‘Good morning, girls’.

Her comment comes after a teacher at a private girls school was reportedly forced to apologise for greeting her pupils as “girls”.

She said that new guidance for schools on dealing with trans issues would be released before the summer.

“We can’t mix up sex and gender. We’ve seen what happened in Scotland when it got that round the wrong way,” she said. “Our guidance needs to provide safeguarding for all children and make sure that it does cover all children’s rights as well. So yes, we need to be sensitive, but we also need to have common sense.”"

WarriorN · 17/04/2023 11:11

Hmmm, proof is in the pudding

BonfireLady · 17/04/2023 11:57

Proof indeed in the pudding. But hooray, somebody has started baking it! Finally! 👏👏
The article from the Times is encouraging. Particularly the reference to "common sense". It feels like express permission not to subscribe to group think and ideological mantras.

WarriorN · 17/04/2023 12:02

My concern is that too many teachers are extremely motivated to peddle this rubbish regardless of guidance, especially if parents aren't complaining.

Re math etc, this from Kirsty and Jolo had me in Stitches

Teachers ‘must tell parents about pupils’ gender changes’
RedToothBrush · 17/04/2023 12:03

If schools MUST tell parents about names, then there's going to be

a) a big backlash from newly empowered parents
b) a lot of kids having a massive tantrum over this and being very distressed about it
c) you'll see a lot less social transitioning in schools because safeguarding returns and doing it to fit in won't be so prevalent

The schools are going to find themselves in a really awkward position explaining how they put the ideology first, and mopping up the after effects of this.