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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Intersex + transgender?

59 replies

Piplette · 13/04/2023 21:12

Firstly, I have no desire to offend anyone /cause controversy and am genuinely curious and looking for views on this.

If an individual is intersex (xxy), has lived 40 odd years as male but then chooses to live as a female including changing their official gender would they be classed as transgender? And would you consider them now female?

OP posts:

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Arrrrrrgh · 15/04/2023 02:33

CaptainWarbeck · 13/04/2023 23:31

That was an interesting case and I would caveat very rare. But the individual was XX with uterus and ovaries but external functional penis, living as a man.

Show quote history

I'm stuck on this now. Just thinking how utterly ghastly this trans debate must feel to someone with this type of physical difference to the majority. I had no idea. For me, and I'm not sure if this is "right" or "wrong" but I'm feeling vastly more empathy for someone living with this condition right now than someone suffering from gender dysphoria without a DSD. And it's odd timing, having just clicked on the thread about Rishi saying "no woman has a penis". Wasn't such a glory feeling as I might have had, had I not learnt about this this evening! As rare as it might be, I'm feeling deep compassion towards anyone with this type of dsd right now. They must feel completely overlooked and overshadowed in these discussions. Where are their spokespeople in this debate?

Arrrrrrgh · 15/04/2023 02:41

And I'm bloody glad Stonewall seem to have finally drawn a differentiation around inclusion in their umbrella of the "I".

BluebellBlueballs · 15/04/2023 07:23

TheBiologyStupid · 13/04/2023 23:47

People with DSDs have repeatedly disassociated themselves from the trans debate and asked others to respect that. They are thoroughly sick of being used as some kind of "gotcha" by TRAs trying to argue that sex isn't binary.

If DSDs had any relevance to trans identities then transmen and transwomen would be born with such conditions - and they overwhelming aren't. It would also help with diagnosis, but medicalising trans identities is transphobic apparently.

Not for the first time, medical conditions are both relevant and irrelevant to trans identity ideology simultaneously. Even Schrödinger's cat is getting confused by the cognitive dissonance.

I'm just wondering if schrodinger cat has both male genitals and female genitals but only one is observable at a time.

Now THAT would be gender fluid!

BluebellBlueballs · 15/04/2023 07:28

deepwatersolo · 14/04/2023 17:24

I know that - at least in the Anglosaxon sphere - people with DSD speak up against being conflated with the trans issue Blaueblumen. There was a very knowledgeable and outspoken DSD-woman on Twitter some years back, whose conversations with TRAs I enjoyed very much - I forgot her name.

Which is why I was surprised that The Umbrella is now termed LGBTQI+ (did I miss something?). Was the I hijacked or is the inclusion in that acronym ok for the DSD community? (Assuming that the I Stands for Intersex) Does anyone know?

Stonewall are not known for consulting with anyone except themselves before adding more letters to the heinz tinned alphabet spaghetti

deepwatersolo · 15/04/2023 11:21

Thank you for the infos! So the I was basically hijacked, great. In the German speaking sphere I‘ve seen a couple of TRAs elevated who identify as „intersex and trans/nonbinary“. I‘m pretty certain people with DSD generally don’t feel represented by them, though they are apparently not as vocal about it as in the English speaking world.
All in all, the push to get the I in seems very determined…

Though I feel the worst days of total TRA ideology dominance are over and Reality is reasserting itself, increasingly in mainstream media, too.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 15/04/2023 11:26

Blaueblumen · 13/04/2023 22:00

There is no such thing as a person who is actually intersex, ie both sexes. All individuals with a dsd are either male or female.

How can you tell whether they are male or female?

‘If you have a dick, you ain’t a chick’ as they say in Washington State.

TheBiologyStupid · 15/04/2023 12:09

Well, cats are liquid... https://www.boredpanda.com/cats-are-liquids/

15 Proofs That Cats Are Liquids

According to Wikipedia, liquid takes the shape of a container and maintains almost-fixed volume. So there you have it. Cats are liquids! If you still don't believe this, here are 15 undeniable proofs.

https://www.boredpanda.com/cats-are-liquids

Grammarnut · 15/04/2023 13:02

EmotionalSupportHyena · 13/04/2023 21:27

Men with small testicles (the most notable symptom of Klinefelters) are still men!

Surely you can see that inferring that they are not men is insulting?

Show quote history

But you inferred it, the OP only asked a question. I doubt someone who was xxy would want to transition to female as they are biologically male and DSDs have naught to do with being transgender.

heathspeedwell · 15/04/2023 13:40

From looking at social media accounts it's clear that quite a few men who claim to be women also claim to be 'intersex'. Jessica Yaniv is the most obvious example, and has made statements that reveal fundamental his ignorance about what intersex actually means.

He claimed in court to be 'intersex' because he has a fetish for menstruation and he pretends that he can have periods while also having functioning male genitalia.

There's no scientific evidence at all that people with DSDs are more likely to be trans. But there is evidence that paraphilias cluster.

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