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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish government to challenge Westminster block on GRR

81 replies

Janie143 · 12/04/2023 13:12

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65249431 Good let's get this settled once and for all. Useful side effect to stop Welsh Assembly attempting the same.

supporters of the bill

Block on Scottish gender reforms to be challenged in court

The Scottish government is to launch a legal bid to overturn Westminster's veto on the controversial plans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65249431

OP posts:
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BlackForestCake · 12/04/2023 15:05

Is the Scottish Government fighting because if they do not define and defend their right to enact their own laws it is a disaster for Scottish independence OR because it is this specific act?

If you were going to pick a fight with Westminster you would do it about something that was popular. The effect of choosing this particular fight will be to drive down support for independence.

BlackForestCake · 12/04/2023 15:07

And yes, it's the Greens behind this. Unless they are even stupider that anyone imagines, the SNP must know they don't have a leg to stand on legally.

For those outside Scotland, the Scottish Greens are so insane that they have broken off relations with the Green Party of England and Wales because the latter is not batshit enough.

Hoardasurass · 12/04/2023 15:11

This is brilliant just yesterday sarwar (scot labour leader) was defending this bill and slating starmer for not supporting it for 16 year olds. Considering only 18% of the Scottish public support challenging the section 35 order I think useless yousef has just singed the death warrants for the SNP, Greens and Scottish Labour all in 1 go 🤣

lifeturnsonadime · 12/04/2023 15:12

A bit off topic but I don't really understand the Green Party stance on trans issues? Surely life long medicalisation is not compatible with a party whose aim, at least on the face of it, is saving the planet?

Why are the Scottish Green Party so captured?

Hoardasurass · 12/04/2023 15:20

lifeturnsonadime · 12/04/2023 15:12

A bit off topic but I don't really understand the Green Party stance on trans issues? Surely life long medicalisation is not compatible with a party whose aim, at least on the face of it, is saving the planet?

Why are the Scottish Green Party so captured?

You'd think that but I've seen quite a few people (not the usual conspiracy nuts) pointing out that sterilising people on demand under the guise of trans health care with the added bonus of eugenics (all those autistic kids) is a great form of population control especially when it's being promoted in a way that is guaranteed to create social contagion.
I would love to dismiss them as conspiracy nuts but they have just enough logic and fact to make you wonder

lifeturnsonadime · 12/04/2023 15:22

Oh my @Hoardasurass

bellinisurge · 12/04/2023 15:40

The sunlight from this will be awesome.
It'll give Starmer something to think about with his 99.9% of women are biological women bullshit.

Keepthetowel · 12/04/2023 15:55

I suspect they really don’t want independence, shouting from the back seat is much more comfortable than being in charge.

CaveMum · 12/04/2023 15:59

I'm assuming that the "thinking" (and I use that term very loosely!) behind this from the SNP is that they can't really lose by challenging it:

  1. The challenge itself keeps the Greens onside;
  2. If they win, hurrah they can proclaim themselves the Wokest of Them All;
  3. If they lose, boo hiss it's all the Nasty Tories fault and all the more reason for Independence.

What they have failed to take into account is how unpopular the proposal is with the general public, but they're in too deep to back down now.

Boiledbeetle · 12/04/2023 16:02
Deer Popcorn GIF

Ooh this is going to be interesting!

littlbrowndog · 12/04/2023 16:05

dropthevipers · 12/04/2023 14:16

That is the only possible reason. The SNP are not entirely stupid and know this challenge is doomed to fail, but they have to say they at least tried to keep Harvie et al onside.

This one. Trying to get greens. Hey look greens we tried our best. It was uk government who stopped us the meanies

littlbrowndog · 12/04/2023 16:09

But I still don’t understand how in their minds they can say you are not mature till you are 25 years old but can be mature enough to change your gender and be legally bound by it at 16 🤣🙈

make it make sense

MarshaBradyo · 12/04/2023 16:17

ResisterRex · 12/04/2023 14:54

And if we'd had a Labour government in Westminster, there are a lot of indicators that they would not have issued an S35 and that the whole of the UK would now have self-ID for ages 16+

So that’s how a tiny proportion of politicians can do something so profound and detrimental

tg Labour weren’t in although who knows what’s next if they do get in

2bazookas · 12/04/2023 16:28

Have you seen Humza's face the last few days? The wretched face of a man who realised he "won" a poison chalice. Every day worse revelations about SNP party finance. The Party's accountants have resigned and won't handle their accounts. The stench is overwhelming.

He's desperate for a way out. He's hoping losing to Westminster will be a good enough excuse to resign.

LexMitior · 12/04/2023 16:29

@littlbrowndog one of life's great mysteries- potentially only explained that the majority of crime is committed by those 25 years and under.

How very convenient those sentencing guidelines are

Waitwhat23 · 12/04/2023 16:34

It's just sickening that instead of our public funds being used to tackle some of the many issues here in Scotland, it's being wasted on this bullshite. A transparent attempt to keep the odious Greens onside in case they take their ball and go home.

CaveMum · 12/04/2023 16:40

2bazookas · 12/04/2023 16:28

Have you seen Humza's face the last few days? The wretched face of a man who realised he "won" a poison chalice. Every day worse revelations about SNP party finance. The Party's accountants have resigned and won't handle their accounts. The stench is overwhelming.

He's desperate for a way out. He's hoping losing to Westminster will be a good enough excuse to resign.

The financial stuff only gets worse too.

Humza has had to admit that SNP hid the resignation of their auditors for 6 months SNP hid resignation of auditors for six months, Humza Yousaf reveals | HeraldScotland

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/2023.04.12-052726/www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23449248.snp-finance-woes-deepen-auditors-leave-partys-westminster-group/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SNP finance woes deepen as auditors leave party's Westminster group | HeraldScotland (archive.is)

They've got till 7 July to submit their audited accounts or be hit with a fine by the Electoral Commission.

SNP hid resignation of auditors for six months, Humza Yousaf reveals

THE SNP hid the resignation of their auditors during a police investigation for six months, Humza Yousaf disclosed today.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23447841.snp-hid-resignation-auditors-six-months-humza-yousaf-reveals/?ref=twtrec

MarshaBradyo · 12/04/2023 16:55

Waitwhat23 · 12/04/2023 16:34

It's just sickening that instead of our public funds being used to tackle some of the many issues here in Scotland, it's being wasted on this bullshite. A transparent attempt to keep the odious Greens onside in case they take their ball and go home.

The waste of public funds is galling

NotHavingIt · 12/04/2023 16:55

lifeturnsonadime · 12/04/2023 15:12

A bit off topic but I don't really understand the Green Party stance on trans issues? Surely life long medicalisation is not compatible with a party whose aim, at least on the face of it, is saving the planet?

Why are the Scottish Green Party so captured?

Yes, this has always been a rather perplexing contradiction. There is nothing much that is ecological, green, or earth centred in medicating healthy bodies and denying the reality of sex.

Grammarnut · 12/04/2023 17:05

Justme56 · 12/04/2023 13:38

I think this is also interesting. Last week in a Scottish Court a 21 year old was not given a custodial sentence for raping a 13 year old when he was 17 after following Scottish Sentencing Council's Guidelines. The guidelines link to a paper about the cognitive development of adolescents and this is part of the executive summary:

"During adolescence and within normal individual development, an imbalanced growth pattern is observed between the brain regions governing emotion and mood, like the amygdala, and those involved in executive functions (those that provide the cognitive abilities which are necessary for prosocial behaviour, successful goal planning and achievement), like the prefrontal cortex. Converging findings suggest that this latter brain region is the last to reach maturity, leaving adolescents with immature and compromised core cognitive abilities for much of this developmental period. This immaturity, when coupled with the increased motivation to achieve rewards observed to coincide with puberty, is thought to be the most likely underlying mechanism contributing to the poor problem solving, poor information processing, poor decision making and risk-taking behaviours often considered to typify adolescence. Evidence suggests that the influence, or presence, of peers further exacerbates these tendencies."

The Scottish GRR however suggests that a 16 year old has the cognitive development to make a decision about gender reassignment (a lifelong decision according to their proposal).

So a seventeen year old is too immature to understand that rape is wrong but they can decide to change gender, have puberty blockers and cut off healthy bits of their body. Cognitive dissonance, I think.

Boiledbeetle · 12/04/2023 17:10

Grammarnut · 12/04/2023 17:05

So a seventeen year old is too immature to understand that rape is wrong but they can decide to change gender, have puberty blockers and cut off healthy bits of their body. Cognitive dissonance, I think.

It's almost like the Scottish Government doesn't know it's arse from its elbow!

Boiledbeetle · 12/04/2023 17:11

an errant almost slipped in there

Grammarnut · 12/04/2023 17:12

Too fast with the post button. Teenagers are not exempt from the consequences of actions and those consequences need clear explaining. Rape is wrong however old you are, and is a crime that ought to cost the perpetrator his liberty, teenager or not. Decisions that have consequences in the far future, such as unnecessary puberty blockers and genital surgery, also need explaining, and if it is clear the teenager does not understand the consequences - which they won't because they are rooted in the present and its sense of invincibility at that point - then those things cannot happen. There is a reason for describing under-18s as minors - it is to protect them. How we square the circle of consequences for rape with acknowledging teens are unable to consent to unnecessary puberty blockers is a knotty ethical problem. That an under-16 cannot consent to anything more than what they will have for tea might be a good idea.