Starmer: Almost no-one is talking about trans issues

[SidewaysOtter]

To quote from the rolling news section of this morning's Times:

"Almost no Britons are “talking about trans issues,” Sir Keir Starmer has said as he questioned why such issues are a focus of political debate.

The Labour leader sought to win over gender critical campaigners and MPs at the weekend, telling The Sunday Times there would be “no rolling back” of women’s rights if the party formed a government.

Speaking to LBC this morning he repeated his position that “for the vast majority — let’s say 99.9 per cent — biology matters” in defining a woman. He said that Labour was trying to agree a “common sense, respectable and tolerant position”, but that it was “not prepared to ignore” the small number of people who identify as a different gender to the one they were born in.

He insisted it was a marginal issue for many voters, however. “As we go around the country campaigning, I talk to thousands and thousands and thousands of people. They want to talk to me about the cost of living crisis, about the fact they can’t pay their bills, they want to know what they’re going to do about their council tax,” he said.

“Almost nobody is talking about trans issues. I do sometimes just wonder why on earth we spend so much of our time discussing something which isn’t a feature of the dinner table or the kitchen table or the café table or the bar.”

Funny, because I think there's quite a lot of people talking about "trans issues". Whether it's the treatment of Posie Parker and the 72-year-old woman who were violently assaulted last weekend, male-bodied people in women's sports/changing rooms/hospital wards/prisons, the medicalisation/mutilation of young adults, or the vilification of those who speak The Terrible Heresy that you cannot change your biological sex. And yes, we're talking about it at the dinner table, the café bar or wherever.

"No rolling back of women's rights" doesn't mean shit if you count men as women, Mr Starmer. And you can wang on about "respect and tolerance" all you like but we know what you really mean by that is wanting us to be quiet and stop being awkward. That isn't going to happen.

This all sounds like a carefully planned strategy by Labour that isn't going as well as they'd hoped.

Avowed aim of outgoing admin.

You can look up the debate in parliament about it. Remember this was before same sex marriage. The major concern seemed to be that transexual women might be blackmailed if they had a relationship with a heterosexual man. Presumably because a heterosexual man wouldn't want to be thought homosexual. It is absolutely shocking to read. It's always been a homophobic and misogynistic piece of work.

People most definitely are talking about it - maybe not at work where it's quite understandable not to want to get into it. But it's definitely on people's minds.
I've realised that make friends I was actually very fond of, are misogynistic arseholes because of their stance on this. These are men I would have bet good money on as being supportive of women. This really fucking matters to me and KS is outright lying if he's trying to make out otherwise.

Someone might like to point out to him that it's possible to care about cost of living, NHS and the trans debate all at the same time!

KS doesn't appear to believe in anything - seemingly just goes with whatever is expedient to get elected. He wants to go after the easy shit that we all agree on, not actually have to stand up for something. This is what comes of being a weak leader with no real principles

I've certainly overheard people talking about it in the pub and at work. When I've mentioned it people frequently know a friend or young relative who identifies as trans.

More significantly, most people I know who are concerned are being very careful who they speak to.

Starmer is just setting himself up to do a Sturgeon on this issue if he keeps just trying to shut it down.

Not disputing that I am sure health and cost of living issues come up more frequently. As being able to pay bills is the most basic requirement.

Same here, from the staunch left wing to the staunch right wing. All my female friends when we are one-to-one bring it up, sotto voce at first and then proper full on conversations.

99.9% is weasel words from a salesman with a bad product.

I think he’s worried too. They have no way out so can only repeat no one cares.

That’s even more enraging if you do care of course. Which means people will talk about it more.

This is typical politico-speech for trying to have an issue on which their party is not doing too well to be ignored in the public conversations, i.e., to imply that the issue is unimportant as not widely discussed.

But as others have said, it's not widely discussed because of both fear of cancellations and ostracism and because of pluralistic ignorance. An issue doesn't have to be the most widespread one in conversations to be important.

KS has to be kidding !

Even my ds (14) is bored stupid with the whole topic. He's past talking about it, now he just rolls his eyes and walks away if the subject comes up.

Does Sir Keir not realise that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. And those reactions are getting more vehement as a result. He is a fool who is making things worse.

He doesn’t need to go much further than the end of his street! People local to him are talking. They’re doing their own version of Handmaids “Mayday” to see who it’s safe to talk to, but they’re talking.

My DS sends me GC links, my DS's gf has long conversations with me about the issues (she always goes back to: why is it some friends call me a bigot just bringing up the topic?) My good friend was over this week and all she could talk about were GI issues, and she started from a position of "just be kind" two years ago. Now she is royally pissed off.

In my world there isn't anyone NOT talking about it, really.

I may be wrong - I don't have children at school anymore. But one gets the impression that they talk (and teach) about nothing else in schools these days.

It’s highly likely that Labour’s polling and focus groups indicate that the number of people who feel strongly enough about Trans issues for it to change the way they actually vote at the next election is tiny when compared to the electoral importance of the NHS, cost of living, housing, immigration etc etc.

It’s also very likely that many of those who would change how they vote live in safe Labour seats in London, university towns etc etc and that there aren’t enough of them to actually move the dial. First rule of electoral politics: Learn to count.

have also heard this view expressed!

What he means is 'it's only women who are talking about trans issues, therefore we can ignore them as usual'.

Chuck us a sop in the form of some pissy faux menopause empathy and that'll do, eh?

Fuck that.

It's pathetic and clearly rubbish - being discussed everywhere - eyes rolling all over the nation. Come canvassing at my door....

My sense, though, is that he knows perfectly well it's becoming a huge issue. But like Brexit - he just hopes that he can sidestep the issue to avoid alienating either side - so he's making these silly assertions in the hope that it will all go away. Fingers in ears 'la la la' style.

Good luck with that strategy, Keir.....

Labour's lead in the polls has dropped recently. https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/

Labour yet again ignoring messages it doesnt want to hear. First rule of politics should be that you can do nothing unless you get elected. "Learn to count" includes recognising what is causing your support to fall away.

I think most people who do talk about it talk about it at home, Look what happened to that woman on the other thread. All she said was women were matched with women in her gym for MMA training and she’s been dobbed into HR. Didn’t even mention trans people, not even in a circular way but you just know thats what it’s about. How many people in that environment will be happy to say to work colleagues “utter nonsense isn’t it”.

Oh this is clever. This is where no fucking debate led to. The leader of the Labour Party tries to claim no one is talking about it. This makes me so fucking angry because when we try and talk about it we get shut down. If you try and talk about it on any social media other than MN you'll receive death threats and rape threats and get doxxed. Woe betide you try and actually meet in person and talk about is as you'll have a gang of violent TRAs turn up and try to intimidate you. If your MP happens to be a Labour MP and she tries to talk about it she'll get shut down (Rosie Duffield). If you write to your own MP (Fleur Anderson at the time) in support of Rosie Duffield and explaining your position on the matter as a constituent, copying the leader, they completely ignore your emails.

Heaven forbid you raise it in the workplace, in any D&I type forum when discussing discrimination in the workplace on the basis of sex because lord knows women experience that in spades (hello maternity discrimination) I actually don't feel able to join any women's type networks or D&I networks at work / in my professional capacity because I don't think I could bring myself to swallow the BS and nod along when the the TWAW and respecting people's gender identify comes out, but if I say what I really think I'll be denounced as a heretic.

No one is talking about it my arse.

Cue Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar to tell us all that cancel culture is a myth. Look, that nasty JKR can be nasty whenever she nasty well likes. She's not being cancelled. And no-one else is.

Certainly not any Joanna Public woman commenting on mixed MMA classes.

Does the left really think we're fools?

I don't meet trans people every day. But I do meet women and girls. It just shows where previous poster's sympathies lie when everything is about the T.
I can't take credit for 'Mr Beige against the machine ', I 'm afraid. I stole it from Twitter.

Another five years of Tory rule and this country will be in the gutter, but no worries as long as they go along with your GC ideology.

I hope this blows up in his face, I think even american audiences are being peaked. Think it was the Washington Times where trans people were talking about healthcare and how they feel being trans makes it difficult for them to access it. I was reading with an open mind because I imagine if you suffer from genuine genuine dysphoria life can be extremely hard, or if your surgery was badly performed and you have on-going health issues.

There was a transman complaining a woman’s hospital had too much pink (disputed by a woman who gave birth there 3 times and who goes to a woman’s hospital and complains that it seems a bit too womany). There was a transwoman moaning that no-one would give them a pap smear. Some were complaining that their doctors blamed their health problems on the hormones they were taking. The comments were quite to the point at times.

Didn't you say that 5 years ago, and 5 years before that?

Who runs the institutions, left wingers who captured them?

It is the left who told us 8 years ago the world would end in 10 years, it was also the left in China who are supporting Russia in the war and the left in China who wouldn't inform us properly about the pandemic.

Gender Ideology affects everything I care about:
healthcare
education
women’s rights
safeguarding
freedom of speech
law and order

I need a party that I can trust with new laws being introduced affecting all the above. If I can’t trust a politician to tell the truth on the definition of a woman, I can’t trust him/her on anything.

How can it not be on the agenda?