Starmer: Almost no-one is talking about trans issues

[SidewaysOtter]

To quote from the rolling news section of this morning's Times:

"Almost no Britons are “talking about trans issues,” Sir Keir Starmer has said as he questioned why such issues are a focus of political debate.

The Labour leader sought to win over gender critical campaigners and MPs at the weekend, telling The Sunday Times there would be “no rolling back” of women’s rights if the party formed a government.

Speaking to LBC this morning he repeated his position that “for the vast majority — let’s say 99.9 per cent — biology matters” in defining a woman. He said that Labour was trying to agree a “common sense, respectable and tolerant position”, but that it was “not prepared to ignore” the small number of people who identify as a different gender to the one they were born in.

He insisted it was a marginal issue for many voters, however. “As we go around the country campaigning, I talk to thousands and thousands and thousands of people. They want to talk to me about the cost of living crisis, about the fact they can’t pay their bills, they want to know what they’re going to do about their council tax,” he said.

“Almost nobody is talking about trans issues. I do sometimes just wonder why on earth we spend so much of our time discussing something which isn’t a feature of the dinner table or the kitchen table or the café table or the bar.”

Funny, because I think there's quite a lot of people talking about "trans issues". Whether it's the treatment of Posie Parker and the 72-year-old woman who were violently assaulted last weekend, male-bodied people in women's sports/changing rooms/hospital wards/prisons, the medicalisation/mutilation of young adults, or the vilification of those who speak The Terrible Heresy that you cannot change your biological sex. And yes, we're talking about it at the dinner table, the café bar or wherever.

"No rolling back of women's rights" doesn't mean shit if you count men as women, Mr Starmer. And you can wang on about "respect and tolerance" all you like but we know what you really mean by that is wanting us to be quiet and stop being awkward. That isn't going to happen.

Kier refuses to say what a woman is, for fear of the braying mob. Women and girls have been raped by transwomen allowed on to "female" wards, in female toilets etc. We've been attacked at peacefully rallies simply for just standing there, asking for the right to simply be allowed to speak. The police in many countries are allowing the TRA mob to do and act how they please, and do not protect women and men supporting women even when we get punched, spat on, dragged around, have signs calling for our deaths waived gleefully in our faces. I have daughters, a lesbian sister, a mother, aunts. I cannot in any good conscience vote for someone who refuses to stand up to lunacy.

Perhaps it was me doing my daily canvassing round.

To be fair I normally stick to unhappiness about plans for the local park (no one but no one agrees, did the Council not consult anyone), some seemingly random bike lanes and road closures (problem is the apparent randomness), the need for some and the standard anti social behaviour, pothole, litter stuff. And how I intend to be an active ward councillor (important as the Council see to assume that people needing their services have access to the internet. Current eye roll is that you now need ID to vote. If you don’t have ID there is a link….except that in the societal Venn diagram there is a big overlap between those who don’t have ID and those who don’t use the internet.)

But yeah. I have had a couple of good GC conversations. Importantly, whether male or female, everyone has been on the same page.

Igneococcus · Today 06:26
Good comment by Jenni Russell in the Times today, "Starmer is taking 99.9% of women for fools":

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a6c276b0-d31b-11ed-b5c3-54651fc826e9?shareToken=e7a5e2c89a15ec16101b6d72e57dc190

Thank you very much for the share token. That article couldn’t be clearer.

Needmoresleep · Today 08:03
If you don’t have ID there is a link….except that in the societal Venn diagram there is a big overlap between those who don’t have ID and those who don’t use the internet.)

How somehow typical.

Good luck. You will be a blessing if you can get voted in.

I do like the way Starmer says "no one is talking about it," then the EHRC comes out with a letter about clarifying sex.

As a lawyer and politician, he can't fail to miss it.

there is a big overlap between those who don’t have ID and those who don’t use the internet

Mid-Covid, my parents tried to use the local library for internet facilities.

You had to book your slot online.

Spot the problem.

I suspect that if I am elected I won't be particularly popular with colleagues.

Being a Ward Councillor, in my case in a mixed area, should give lots of small opportunities to make a difference. I already have a list of constituent issues to follow up on, where people feel, and I agree, that the system has failed them.

One Labour Party problem I had not realised before is Tony Blair's decision to increase Councillor allowances. I think they are now about £13,000pa tax free, so the equivalent of about £17,000, with scope for more if you Chair a Committee or something. Since they are "allowances" I don't think they affect benefits. It is a job for four years and you can't be sacked if you don't turn up.

Perfect for a student activist/idealogue who does not want to grow up. Join your local labour party. Be active on the basic leafleting/canvassing and get rewarded with a safe Ward. No need for a job. I am told that the incumbent I am up against has reached 50 without ever having worked. I have not met him, and am trying to stay clear of personality politics, but can see that he has time to be active in a number of national issues (some of which I might agree with). For balance it might be noted that a Councillor allowance makes a perfect retirement income for someone right of centre who likes being involved. (It not something I had actually considered but the money is a known motivation.)

In the past young Labour activists might have dropped out as they got jobs, or at least had their politics informed by the need to take part in the daily grind. Now they don't need to and presumably have the time to climb the hierarchy, look for jobs as SpAds or whatever and make a career from politics. It might help explain why our politicians don't always see beyond their bubbles. It might also explain why our political parties appear to have drifted away from the centre to the left and right (the LibDems seem to have drifted to their own specific fringe.) And why certain lobbies which these activists might support have gained so much currency.

I read somewhere that one problem is that MPs no longer do much canvassing, so don't actually meet ordinary people. Many of the women I've spoken to in the last week or so could be mumsnetters (perhaps Keir should be given a task on looking at MN daily, not just here but Elderly Parents, some of the money ones , relationships whatever). Most people, unsurprisingly, have similar concerns to people I know. I canvassed a, slightly notorious, tower block yesterday, smell of urine and empty nos capsules on the stairs. "You're brave, someone said as I handed out my Conservative leaflet. It appears I am the first canvasser people had seen ever. By the time I got to the ground floor (rule one of canvassing/leafleting take the lift to the top and work your way down) I was quite seriously cross. Often small issues. A lot was not about money, money is being spent. A bit of attention to detail, continuity of service, respect and communication would go a long way. I won't have picked up a lot of (any?) new votes but I learnt a lot and met some good people.

So tip....if you are sensible, care about people and are planning to stay at home when the children are young and could do with some money, think of becoming a Councillor. Be aware that both local Conservative and Labour parties tend to be boys clubs (different boys) but keep your head down till you are selected and they may think you are malleable. Doesn't matter which party. People should have a palatable choice, and it would give you lots of skills for a future CV. You do as much as you want and most can be done from home. There are not that many meetings, and some might be available on Zoom.

We need good ward Councillors. My impression is that first the "digital revolution" and then the pandemic and continuing wfh by Council workers has created a distance between "service providers" (and do include Keir in that), and "service users", with the former far less informed by the latter. Its not just Councils. GPs are another example. In general it seems to be those who need services most who are increasingly cut off from accessing them.

Well...she did say she was on Mumsnet! and if it was you you never came back to collect the questionnaire! Don't answer that! Or we will all end up outing each other in real life!!! And don't even get me started on bike lanes being plonked down in the most annoying and inconvenient places!

I suspect though that there are currently a lot of Conservative candidates having some rather surprising conversations with Labour party members and voters that they wouldn't normally be having in a month of Sundays!a
Kier's inability to answer the question with an actual answer is infuriating. The way Rosie gets treated. The way idiot man whose name I've forgotten had that rating rant at Miriam in Fucking parliament!!!! It's just not a good look is it!

It's good to know though that people are talking about this on the door step. Obviously Labour needs to get their hearing checked out!

Don't worry. Not me. If I thought it was I would be back for the questionnaire and invite myself in for a tea and a biscuit.

Jenni Russell's article is brilliant. She is such a good writer, but I think when all this kicked off a few years ago she was out of action because she was having treatment for cancer. So glad to see her back on form and writing such an incisive, angry piece.

Needmoresleep- I would vote for someone like you on local issues without much caring what party you represented. Thanks for making the effort.

😁

Me too @Needmoresleep

Awww. Sadly I am unlikely to get in.

I am now even more convinced that those of us who are inclined towards the centre. (Newly Conservative as I am personally quite frugal so disinclined to think that more money is the solution to everything, plus I could not handle internal Labour Party politics.)

After 4 May I will start a "Ask her to Stand" thread. Other Local Authority elections are on a different timetable. It should be interesting and rewarding, and the money ain't bad. And sensible people are able to work across political divides to achieve common aims.

(And knowing what a woman is really should not be a political issue. Indeed it should not be an issue.)

On the whole, I like this article by Victoria Smith in The Critic:
https://thecritic.co.uk/Keir-Starmer-is-not-the-voice-of-reason-/

But I'm distancing myself from this bit:
'In spite of this, many of us will still vote Labour come the next election.'
If Starmer backtracks on self ID - and I will give him until election time to do so - then I might well still vote for him. But if he thinks he can carry on ducking and diving, and basically gambling that women like me will stay loyal, well then I can't speak for every woman but, as far as I'm concerned, he can go whistle.

Also Victoria Smith, just in case you're reading and much as I admire you, why on earth tell Starmer we'll vote for him regardless when there's still quite possibly 18 months to go? What incentive does that give him to put this right?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sdHzSGR0MPc

@Floisme that picture looks like he is doing the roadman clicky finger thing. Even got the low shoulder walk. Is he the local gangsta 'ard man? 😮

BIossomtoes · Today 10:1

lifeturnsonadime · Today 10:19

The harms have only been apparent over the last 2 or 3 years.

Rapists in women's prisons and men winning women's sport wasn't a thing 14 years ago.

So no changes in two or three years - what’s keeping them?

It is disappointing more has not been done especially in regard to clarifying the meaning of sex in the equality act (nb the legal mess that is the lying GRA together with the Equality Act ( however well meaning) were created by Labour and boasted about by Starmer only a few days ago.

But Kemi Badenoch wrote to Baroness Farquhar to ask if it should be clarified and she answered that it should be. ( Then got attacked by TRAs)

Boris publicly stated words to the effect that Transwomen and women are not the same - taboo until then.

T was separated from its conflation with LGB for the Ban on Conversion Therapy Bill Saying T needs its own careful considerations. This was huge. Very disappointingly Rishi threatened to join them again but Kemi has just been explaining the dangers.

The government refused Scotlands self-ID including for 16 year olds.

Savid Javid commissioned The Cass Review which has been instrumental in making people more aware about the harms to children of gender clinics’ policies of affirmation only and puberty blockers.

There has recently been an (admittedly weak) attempt to stop schools keeping parents unaware of what is happening to their own child at school, secretly affirming gender identities, enforcing cooperation with gender pronouns by other children and teachers, and removing sex based lavatories.

So not nothing. Maybe others will think if more.

We are not like Canada, Australia and parts of the USA.

@ScrollingLeaves

Kemi recognises that amendments need to be made to the Equality Act 2010 in the light of the Haldane Judgement in Scotland.

Labour are saying they don't and the existing Single Sex Exemptions applies.

Notwithstanding the fact that the single sex exemptions demonstrably don't work given that all spaces have been mixed sex there are concerns that, at law, the Haldane judgement has the impact of giving people with a GRC the protection of the pc's of Sex and of Gender reassignment making it more difficult for tw with a GRC (and providers can't normally ask for a copy) so effectively TW to be declined access.

https://www.blackstonechambers.com/documents/Transgender_Issues_in_the_Law_-_2023_in_Review.pdf

See paragraph 15 of this legal note for commentary.

Labour don't want to talk about this as it is evidence that their proposals of easier GRC and existing EquA doesn't protect women.

It is agonisingly slow trying to return to a place where women's rights are accepted and safeguarding children non negotiable. While there are small steps, the opposition of Starmer and labour to so much of it is worrying.

Incredibly slow as many are invested in the other direction, including for money aka the gravy train

Labour is aligned with that

What gravy train are you thinking of marsha?

Absolutely. The amount of money thrown at those pushing queer theory is unbelievable. Just look at the figures from national / local government, universities, school funding that has been redirected to these groups. It's why the new draft guidelines for schools are causing such outrage on the part of queer theorists. Once schools (as an example) are made to focus on safeguarding, applying education law and stop removing single sex showers, dormitories, sports etc this will remove a massive source of funding for the adults pushing all this.