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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lived experiences as evidence that sexism is about biological sex, not gender identity

4 replies

wacademia · 02/04/2023 15:40

An argument put forward by some of the TWAW brigade is that sexism and misogyny are based on gender identity or gender presentation.

Walking back from the supermarket, a man's ignored "hello" was rapidly followed by "sweaty cunt". (I had showered an hour earlier, so he has lying about the "sweaty".) His choice of language is telling. He uses a slur about my reproductive anatomy to weaponise my reproductive anatomy against me, an attack that exists on a continuum of attacks against women's sexed bodies that has verbal harrasment at the least severe end and murder-rape (e.g. Sarah Everard) at the most severe end. Every harassment or attack like this is evidence that the ivory tower "gender studies" advocates are wrong and we are right. So let's collect this evidence in this thread as a resource to call on when we write to MPs etc.

OP posts:
nepeta · 02/04/2023 16:42

When someone debates me in various online places and feel that they are losing the debate I get called things like "a frothing cunt", "a bitch" etc.

And as an aside, it's not gender presentation which matters here as masculine women get harassed and insulted just the same as feminine women, not freed from all sexism and misogyny as their argument would imply, and it's not about gender identity as a female person identifying as nonbinary and having short hair is at exactly the same risk of sexual harassment and rape as any other woman.

And even a further aside, but a huge point:

Sexism and misogyny are based on sex. That gendered presentation is associated with them has to do with the assignment of that presentation to the female sex. It's not something separate. Transwomen might experience misplaced misogyny if others believe that they are of the female sex, but in other cases the harassment they might experience is based on them being trans and is not misogyny.

This is an existential point. If being female doesn't cause any of the oppression of women and girls we have observed over centuries and in all countries, then women in Afghanistan and in Iran, say, could just all identify as men, shave their heads, and be totally liberated in 24 hours!

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 02/04/2023 16:52

Every butch of centre lesbian who has ever been on the receiving end of verbal abuse from a strange man can attest that it has fuck all to do with clothes and hair (aka ‘gender expression)!

I’m getting older now and don’t attract their attention so much but the last time I was flashed at (about 5 years ago) I was wearing a high vis vest and a cycle helmet.

My bike light had run out of battery and as I am a law abiding sort I had been walking on the pavement pushing my bike for a while, when a young man (20s) asked me what the time was - this turned out to be a ruse to get close to me because it turned out he wasn’t interested in the time, only in wanking at me.

Police later told me they could see him following me down the road via various CCTV for almost a mile.
Luckily for me he was out on license so they recalled him to prison on my statement alone.

I’m sorry you experienced that OP, I’ve always found the whiplash between ‘You’re beautiful’ and ‘You’re a cunt’ after you rebuff their advances to be the most upsetting part of street harassment.

As a teen I always much preferred to be insulted from the off for being a goth or having green hair than for it to start friendly and then turn insulting.

ComradeIcakethereforeIam · 02/04/2023 17:01

There was a thread in the wilds of mumsnet about this kind of stuff. I think the OP meant it to be lighthearted but it turned into lots of posts about harassment, sa, etc. The op was lovely, I think she realised how cathartic it can be....to 'talk'. I posted on it, shilling for signatures on the Equality Act petition so I could probably find it, if you think a link could be useful.

Brokendaughter · 02/04/2023 17:07

The idea that men who want people to say they are not men get treated in the exact same way as real women, relies on the fantasy that it isn't obvious as they clomp along with their male gait towering over real women in their size 10 shoes as their adams apple bobs with every word they utter what their real sex is.

Those men wish they got treated that way.

Men are weird.

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