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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help please with school PSHE etc

29 replies

PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 20:28

My dd is starting a new school. I have concerns. Over 800 children attend this primary school.

I'm autistic and I find I often rub people the wrong way. I don't want to upset school I want them to rethink their policies and providers. Looking for some feedback from you wise people on the email I plan to send to school. It feels may be too long to me that they may tune out, but I don't know what to cut? Any, and all advice welcome!

Email:

I am concerned about how the school addresses gender and biological sex within school policies and have some questions.

Are you aware of the previous Attorney General Suella Braverman's speech (available https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/equalities-and-rights-conflict-and-the-need-for-clarity ) and how it pertains to schools and does the school follow her recommendations?

Can you provide me with your equalities policy as the website is confusing. There is no equalities policy on the link to all policies? There is only some information titled equalities information and objectives.?

Your equality objectives refers to gender where it should refer to sex in multiple places. Sex is the protected characteristic under the equality act not gender. In the table of protected characteristics in the row for sex it omits sex completely and refers to gender. Sex and gender are different things and these errors are concerning. Under the school policies there is currently no protection against sex-based discrimination.

I am concerned that children are being taught using the wrong words with gender being used in place of the word sex. Children with gender critical beliefs could be taught their beliefs are not inclusive as the resources used in PSHE and to write policies seem inappropriate. Gender critical beliefs should be protected under beliefs in the equality act.

The school bullying policy also completely omits biological sex as a protected characteristic instead using the word gender throughout. This is concerning as children with gender critical beliefs would be seen as bullies under this policy for their beliefs. They would also fall foul of the behaviour policy as their beliefs are taken as discriminatory and therefore misbehaviour. Bullying is abhorrent and I fully support the school in tackling such behaviour, regardless of beliefs, it is unacceptable to bully someone who holds a different belief to you. However stating you hold a different belief on sex and gender is not in itself bullying.

How do you ensure the rights of all protected characteristics are upheld and how is conflict between different groups considered?

Additionally I have concerns and questions regarding your sex education and relationships policies.

What CPD providers and training does school use with regard to your PSHE and related curriculum?

Have you ensured that thorough background checks are made on external organisations who provide school with training/resources and that these meet safeguarding standards. In particular I am concerned to see stonewall, the proud trust, and jigsaw references in your policies and would like to raise this as a concern with you and hope you will re-evaluate the appropriateness of such providers.

Stonewall categorises gender critical beliefs as transphobic. Stonewall guidance for schools is dangerous for girls. It also infringes on the right of every child to freedom of thought and freedom of speech. Stonewall resources and guidance are in breach of the Education Act 1996 which forbids political indoctrination of children in schools. Stonewall heavily influenced the Oxfordshire county councils trans inclusion toolkit which was withdrawn over concerns it was sexist and failed to protect female students.

Some of the proud trust resources breach the DfE guidance by suggesting that children might be a different gender based on their personality and interests or the clothes they prefer to wear. The proud trust resources on pronouns is compelled speech. Children should not be told that they should lie about their perception of reality if someone else wants them to. This goes against child safeguarding and is particularly damaging for children who are being abused.

Jigsaw also does not meet safeguarding standards. The Jigsaw programme has ground rules that are set using the Jigsaw Charter. One element of the charter is ‘We respect each other’s privacy (confidentiality)’. The effect of this is that from Year 1 onwards, children are told to keep the discussions during PSHE lesson secret from their parents. This is dangerous and puts children at risk of abuse. Children should never be told to keep secrets from their parent

I wholeheartedly believe gender education is important and the social construct of gender and gender stereotyping should be challenged. I am however concerned that the terms gender and sex are not interchangeable and gender is being used in place of sex within school policies and resources consistently and unlawfully and it’s therefore reasonable to assume incorrect language is being used with the children.

From the school relationships policy can you please clarify “Positively engage in social action and contribute to the wellbeing of others” please can you expand on this. What specifically is being taught to the children around this?

“To ensure the content and delivery of relationships education is appropriate and relevant to our pupils we use our learning we use our assessment data to ascertain what pupils already know, and what they need to learn.” Please can I see this assessment you will be giving?

“Distancing techniques are used to teach relationships education, which provides depersonalised examples which support children to explore what, is being taught without sharing their own personal experiences in the lesson”. Please can I see the examples you will be using for year 2 children.

From your sex education policy how do the resources listed link to the policy definition of sex education and the intent?

Under the year 2 scheme of work attached to the sex education policy:
Julian is a mermaid. Suggested reading Book. How will this book be discussed? Can I see the lesson plan on this? How does it link to the definition of sex education and the intent? This book appears to be on the topic of gender identity and shows transgender ideology, e.g. that it is possible to be born in the wrong body. This is a belief not a fact and should be taught as such. Sex and Relationships Education provided by schools is required to be factual, evidence-based and not to unreasonably go beyond what is required in law. The DfE ‘Relationships Education, Relationships and Sex Education, and Health Education’ guidance for primary is that the following topics are covered: families and people who care for me; caring friendships; respectful relationships; online relationships; being safe. The guidance that covers gender identity is for secondary level pupils, to teach it to year 2 pupils unreasonably goes beyond what is required in law.

How will Julian is a mermaid book be discussed following government guidance for schools that when teaching topics involving gender and biological sex there should be no suggestion that children might be a different gender based on their personality, interests or the clothes they prefer to wear (DfE guidance for schools:
Plan your relationships, sex and health curriculum, and Teaching about relationships, sex and health.)

I understand you have outsourced your PSHE and the subsequent potential effect on women and girls in your school is not at all intentional. I see simply by looking at your policies you have unknowingly followed groups like stonewall and jigsaw who are well known to use questionable tactics to achieve their ends. Hopefully you will be aware of some of what is happening in the news as it is slowly starting to make its way into mainstream media. I feel I have set out the case how it relates to school policy and curriculum but would like to share a film with you that will explain how this situation has come about in our institutions. Link below. Please please if you won’t watch it at least watch the last 16 minutes. But I urge you to watch the whole thing then go and do your own research on it. I also have countless other resources I can share if you are interested in finding out more.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=94HFMSm-JBo

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 20:29

Ok on my screen it's cut my post off so sorry if this is the second copy for you!

I am concerned about how the school addresses gender and biological sex within school policies and have some questions.

Are you aware of the previous Attorney General Suella Braverman's speech (available https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/equalities-and-rights-conflict-and-the-need-for-clarity ) and how it pertains to schools and does the school follow her recommendations?

Can you provide me with your equalities policy as the website is confusing. There is no equalities policy on the link to all policies? There is only some information titled equalities information and objectives.?

Your equality objectives refers to gender where it should refer to sex in multiple places. Sex is the protected characteristic under the equality act not gender. In the table of protected characteristics in the row for sex it omits sex completely and refers to gender. Sex and gender are different things and these errors are concerning. Under the school policies there is currently no protection against sex-based discrimination.

I am concerned that children are being taught using the wrong words with gender being used in place of the word sex. Children with gender critical beliefs could be taught their beliefs are not inclusive as the resources used in PSHE and to write policies seem inappropriate. Gender critical beliefs should be protected under beliefs in the equality act.

The school bullying policy also completely omits biological sex as a protected characteristic instead using the word gender throughout. This is concerning as children with gender critical beliefs would be seen as bullies under this policy for their beliefs. They would also fall foul of the behaviour policy as their beliefs are taken as discriminatory and therefore misbehaviour. Bullying is abhorrent and I fully support the school in tackling such behaviour, regardless of beliefs, it is unacceptable to bully someone who holds a different belief to you. However stating you hold a different belief on sex and gender is not in itself bullying.

How do you ensure the rights of all protected characteristics are upheld and how is conflict between different groups considered?

Additionally I have concerns and questions regarding your sex education and relationships policies.

What CPD providers and training does school use with regard to your PSHE and related curriculum?

Have you ensured that thorough background checks are made on external organisations who provide school with training/resources and that these meet safeguarding standards. In particular I am concerned to see stonewall, the proud trust, and jigsaw references in your policies and would like to raise this as a concern with you and hope you will re-evaluate the appropriateness of such providers.

Stonewall categorises gender critical beliefs as transphobic. Stonewall guidance for schools is dangerous for girls. It also infringes on the right of every child to freedom of thought and freedom of speech. Stonewall resources and guidance are in breach of the Education Act 1996 which forbids political indoctrination of children in schools. Stonewall heavily influenced the Oxfordshire county councils trans inclusion toolkit which was withdrawn over concerns it was sexist and failed to protect female students.

Some of the proud trust resources breach the DfE guidance by suggesting that children might be a different gender based on their personality and interests or the clothes they prefer to wear. The proud trust resources on pronouns is compelled speech. Children should not be told that they should lie about their perception of reality if someone else wants them to. This goes against child safeguarding and is particularly damaging for children who are being abused.

Jigsaw also does not meet safeguarding standards. The Jigsaw programme has ground rules that are set using the Jigsaw Charter. One element of the charter is ‘We respect each other’s privacy (confidentiality)’. The effect of this is that from Year 1 onwards, children are told to keep the discussions during PSHE lesson secret from their parents. This is dangerous and puts children at risk of abuse. Children should never be told to keep secrets from their parent

I wholeheartedly believe gender education is important and the social construct of gender and gender stereotyping should be challenged. I am however concerned that the terms gender and sex are not interchangeable and gender is being used in place of sex within school policies and resources consistently and unlawfully and it’s therefore reasonable to assume incorrect language is being used with the children.

From the school relationships policy can you please clarify “Positively engage in social action and contribute to the wellbeing of others” please can you expand on this. What specifically is being taught to the children around this?

“To ensure the content and delivery of relationships education is appropriate and relevant to our pupils we use our learning we use our assessment data to ascertain what pupils already know, and what they need to learn.” Please can I see this assessment you will be giving?

“Distancing techniques are used to teach relationships education, which provides depersonalised examples which support children to explore what, is being taught without sharing their own personal experiences in the lesson”. Please can I see the examples you will be using for year 2 children.

From your sex education policy how do the resources listed link to the policy definition of sex education and the intent?

Under the year 2 scheme of work attached to the sex education policy:
Julian is a mermaid. Suggested reading Book. How will this book be discussed? Can I see the lesson plan on this? How does it link to the definition of sex education and the intent? This book appears to be on the topic of gender identity and shows transgender ideology, e.g. that it is possible to be born in the wrong body. This is a belief not a fact and should be taught as such. Sex and Relationships Education provided by schools is required to be factual, evidence-based and not to unreasonably go beyond what is required in law. The DfE ‘Relationships Education, Relationships and Sex Education, and Health Education’ guidance for primary is that the following topics are covered: families and people who care for me; caring friendships; respectful relationships; online relationships; being safe. The guidance that covers gender identity is for secondary level pupils, to teach it to year 2 pupils unreasonably goes beyond what is required in law.

How will Julian is a mermaid book be discussed following government guidance for schools that when teaching topics involving gender and biological sex there should be no suggestion that children might be a different gender based on their personality, interests or the clothes they prefer to wear (DfE guidance for schools:
Plan your relationships, sex and health curriculum, and Teaching about relationships, sex and health.)

I understand you have outsourced your PSHE and the subsequent potential effect on women and girls in your school is not at all intentional. I see simply by looking at your policies you have unknowingly followed groups like stonewall and jigsaw who are well known to use questionable tactics to achieve their ends. Hopefully you will be aware of some of what is happening in the news as it is slowly starting to make its way into mainstream media. I feel I have set out the case how it relates to school policy and curriculum but would like to share a film with you that will explain how this situation has come about in our institutions. Link below. Please please if you won’t watch it at least watch the last 16 minutes. But I urge you to watch the whole thing then go and do your own research on it. I also have countless other resources I can share if you are interested in finding out more.

OP posts:
Pinesinthedunes · 31/03/2023 20:35

It's long I didn't read it all - but you may want to begin just by asking to see the materials? I can't recommend Isla Mac enough she has a YouTube channel and is on Twitter as parents Against Gender Ideaology.

But I really feel you OP. I have half a dozen unsent emails sat waiting until I have the nerve or feel like less of a madwoman. I hope someone more useful than I am will come along and offer something more constructive!

ramonaquimby · 31/03/2023 20:36

I think your points are all valid, but it’s too long. Send a shorter email and request a face to face meeting to discuss

PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 20:38

Pinesinthedunes · 31/03/2023 20:35

It's long I didn't read it all - but you may want to begin just by asking to see the materials? I can't recommend Isla Mac enough she has a YouTube channel and is on Twitter as parents Against Gender Ideaology.

But I really feel you OP. I have half a dozen unsent emails sat waiting until I have the nerve or feel like less of a madwoman. I hope someone more useful than I am will come along and offer something more constructive!

See that's my worry. It's too long so they won't read it.

I'm autistic and don't do people very well. I'm worried they will ask me in for a meeting and I know I then won't be communicative. And probably will end up looking like a loony transphobic parent

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 20:39

ramonaquimby · 31/03/2023 20:36

I think your points are all valid, but it’s too long. Send a shorter email and request a face to face meeting to discuss

Any recommendations what to cut and save for later?

Which bits are the most important?

Do you think I'm gonna have to face a meeting? I'd hate to have a meeting

OP posts:
AmuseBish · 31/03/2023 20:43

You're trying to do way too much in one email. Cut the points down and keep them concise. What is it you actually want them to clarify above all else? I'd ask a few neutral questions before even offering your own POV.

IwantToRetire · 31/03/2023 20:45

Not sure if this will work for you, but have your tried looking at each of your paragraphs and then thinking how would I title that? And then use the titles you creat to make a bullet list.

And maybe if it comes up later provide links to speeches etc., at a later point.

Perhaps the only link as it is important not just on this issue, is that they dont seem to have the correct list of protected characteristics so provide a link to that.

Just a thought.

If that approach doesn't work for you maybe just send an opening paragraph or two along the lines that they appear to be conflating sex and gender and this has implications for lesson content (and equalities).

SpicyMoth · 31/03/2023 20:49

I think it's probably a bit long - A good place to cut off would be where you end with; "However stating you hold a different belief on sex and gender is not in itself bullying."
It expresses your concern and also asks for clarification on confusing points without coming across as overtly on one side of the fence or the other politically. It also gives the impression you're concerned about correct use of language and minimising confusion by differentiating sex and gender, which will make it a lot harder for them to dismiss your valid concerns out of hand under the guise of "phobia".

You could also suggest a face to face to discuss further and bring up your remaining points then, where you're less likely to be misunderstood, and if you are, you can correct them.

PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 20:52

AmuseBish · 31/03/2023 20:43

You're trying to do way too much in one email. Cut the points down and keep them concise. What is it you actually want them to clarify above all else? I'd ask a few neutral questions before even offering your own POV.

Thanks.

I do t actually feel like I need clarification if I'm answering my questions they see why I'm asking them and dump jigsaw and sort their language out. If that makes sense? I want to open their eyes

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 20:53

IwantToRetire · 31/03/2023 20:45

Not sure if this will work for you, but have your tried looking at each of your paragraphs and then thinking how would I title that? And then use the titles you creat to make a bullet list.

And maybe if it comes up later provide links to speeches etc., at a later point.

Perhaps the only link as it is important not just on this issue, is that they dont seem to have the correct list of protected characteristics so provide a link to that.

Just a thought.

If that approach doesn't work for you maybe just send an opening paragraph or two along the lines that they appear to be conflating sex and gender and this has implications for lesson content (and equalities).

Thank you. Very helpful

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 20:54

SpicyMoth · 31/03/2023 20:49

I think it's probably a bit long - A good place to cut off would be where you end with; "However stating you hold a different belief on sex and gender is not in itself bullying."
It expresses your concern and also asks for clarification on confusing points without coming across as overtly on one side of the fence or the other politically. It also gives the impression you're concerned about correct use of language and minimising confusion by differentiating sex and gender, which will make it a lot harder for them to dismiss your valid concerns out of hand under the guise of "phobia".

You could also suggest a face to face to discuss further and bring up your remaining points then, where you're less likely to be misunderstood, and if you are, you can correct them.

Thank you!

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 20:54

TrenchVagina · 31/03/2023 20:49

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head? There's a good letter on this thread (or might be on the follow up) that covers this.

See also the Policy Exchange report this week.

Thank you! I love Mumsnet I've learned so much here

OP posts:
ReginaGeorgeismyname · 31/03/2023 21:35

You are making quite a lot of assumptions about the school approach

Julian is a mermaid. Suggested reading Book. How will this book be discussed? Can I see the lesson plan on this? How does it link to the definition of sex education and the intent? This book appears to be on the topic of gender identity and shows transgender ideology, e.g. that it is possible to be born in the wrong body. This is a belief not a fact and should be taught as such.

Have you read this book? I have a copy and I disagree it shows transgender ideology. It's a boy who likes dressing up in 'girls clothes.' That does not equal trans. I think you will come across as ignorant and a bit bigoted if you include the paragraph above (note come across...I'm not saying you are either of these things)

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 31/03/2023 21:38

I'd keep the initial email very brief.

Please can you provide me with:-

A copy of the schools equality and diversity policy
A copy of the PSHE curriculum across all year groups
A list of external stakeholders the school works with to train staff and provide materials to students in relation to PSHE
A copy of all policies which include a list of the protected characteristics

Then you can extract what you want to know, formulate some precise follow questions and make it simpler for the staff to respond.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 31/03/2023 21:57

As well as length, your first draft is also very mixed up - hopping from topic to topic and back again: government guidance, school policies, langauge, lesson content, external resources back to policies, more government guidance, language again...

Break it down. Make a page for each point you want to cover and put the content about that topic on the page.

Then within each page make headings for what you are talking about: what you have seen on the school website, what you couldn't find on the website, what questions you have about that, what extra information you would like them to show you, reasons you are concerned, supporting information etc

That will show the total information you want to cover. Then you can decide what parts are reasonable to put in a first letter - which should not be the whole argument, or assuming that it is an argument. Start neutral, ask questions, gather information. Don't accuse - that will get their backs up and invite obstruction.

Once you have specific information about what they are doing and why, then you can give counter information. You can keep it to written correspondence if you don't want a face to face meeting, but this is only the first step in a process. Don't try to don't all in one huge info dump.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 31/03/2023 21:59

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 31/03/2023 21:38

I'd keep the initial email very brief.

Please can you provide me with:-

A copy of the schools equality and diversity policy
A copy of the PSHE curriculum across all year groups
A list of external stakeholders the school works with to train staff and provide materials to students in relation to PSHE
A copy of all policies which include a list of the protected characteristics

Then you can extract what you want to know, formulate some precise follow questions and make it simpler for the staff to respond.

This is a very good list of starting questions.

PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 22:29

ReginaGeorgeismyname · 31/03/2023 21:35

You are making quite a lot of assumptions about the school approach

Julian is a mermaid. Suggested reading Book. How will this book be discussed? Can I see the lesson plan on this? How does it link to the definition of sex education and the intent? This book appears to be on the topic of gender identity and shows transgender ideology, e.g. that it is possible to be born in the wrong body. This is a belief not a fact and should be taught as such.

Have you read this book? I have a copy and I disagree it shows transgender ideology. It's a boy who likes dressing up in 'girls clothes.' That does not equal trans. I think you will come across as ignorant and a bit bigoted if you include the paragraph above (note come across...I'm not saying you are either of these things)

Yes I read the book. There were a few. I actually really approve of a couple of them they were saying you don't have to pay with the toys traditionally associated with your sex and that princesses can be strong sort of stuff. But Julian is a mermaid isn't just about dressing as a mermaid. It's called "is a mermaid" and there are not many words but lots of pictures to would be very much a discussion type book. He's painted as a mermaid not just dressed as one. And his grandmother who supported his dressing as a mermaid took him to a mermaid parade type thing (looked very like a representation of pride to me but again so few words it's reader interpretation). I did not like how the mermaids at the mermaid parade/party thing were in my prudish opinion kinda sexually dressed with tight clothes and high platform heels. It's a book with a motive to me. Recommend age range 4-7. It's on you tube you being read for kids that's where I found it

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 22:34

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 31/03/2023 21:57

As well as length, your first draft is also very mixed up - hopping from topic to topic and back again: government guidance, school policies, langauge, lesson content, external resources back to policies, more government guidance, language again...

Break it down. Make a page for each point you want to cover and put the content about that topic on the page.

Then within each page make headings for what you are talking about: what you have seen on the school website, what you couldn't find on the website, what questions you have about that, what extra information you would like them to show you, reasons you are concerned, supporting information etc

That will show the total information you want to cover. Then you can decide what parts are reasonable to put in a first letter - which should not be the whole argument, or assuming that it is an argument. Start neutral, ask questions, gather information. Don't accuse - that will get their backs up and invite obstruction.

Once you have specific information about what they are doing and why, then you can give counter information. You can keep it to written correspondence if you don't want a face to face meeting, but this is only the first step in a process. Don't try to don't all in one huge info dump.

Thank you very helpful. This is my problem I am so wordy my meaning always gets lost.

I think I already know the answers to my questions though. I only asked as I want them to think?

Basically I know they have outsourced to jigsaw for resources and lesson plans. and copy and pasted stonewall policies with a few tweaks sort of thing.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 31/03/2023 22:42

Is the school a Stonewall champion? As sadly that raises lots of red flags

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 31/03/2023 23:28

Basically I know they have outsourced to jigsaw for resources and lesson plans

jigsaw doesn't seem to be a Stonewall/Mermaids type organisation though, so you are probably relatively safe.

Unless the school also works with Mermaids/Stonewall.

PurpleBugz · 31/03/2023 23:40

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 31/03/2023 23:28

Basically I know they have outsourced to jigsaw for resources and lesson plans

jigsaw doesn't seem to be a Stonewall/Mermaids type organisation though, so you are probably relatively safe.

Unless the school also works with Mermaids/Stonewall.

They are. Safe schools alliance flags them. I've trawled mumsnet and other places found lots of concerns There were some screenshots of term schedules and resources on the school relationship education policy. It's teaching gender as sex and to keep secrets from parents is in their charter

I then went to their website and read loads of waffle not really saying all that much. Then found their who we are page which I found illuminating as to why gender ideology may be disproportionately covered in their resources.

OP posts:
Vebrithien · 01/04/2023 08:42

Hi hi 😁

I'm the OP from the threads on speaking to the Headteacher about a poster that doesn't show the protected characteristic correctly (mentioned above) and the follow on thread (DepHead captured, No Outsiders poster).

At first if you can, please go in fairly neutrally, asking for info. I liked @BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz suggestions .

Secondly, the more of you that raise this, the more likely you are to be listened to.

My complaints rumbled on for months, until I put a message on the year group WhatsApp group. I got really told off for this (even being threated with the police by the school), but a number of parents messaged to say that they also had concerns.

We joined together, the posters have now been altered, and we're all set to view the curriculum and resources, after the Easter break.

My DD's school use Jigsaw, as do the feeder school to the secondary school I work in. Some of their resources are concerning, some, if used judiciously, are fine.

My letter, with the references, is on my second thread (DepHead captured, No Outsiders posters). You are most welcome to use any part of it, however I would recommend using it after you have established neutral contact.

Good luck! Let me know if I can help in any way.

QuillBill · 01/04/2023 09:01

You need to say more about what is happening. Why would people just click on a YouTube link?

Swipe left for the next trending thread