Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Moira Deeming avoids expulsion from Aus Victoria Liberal Party - powerful thread

45 replies

Sidaway · 27/03/2023 14:24

Apologies to those not on Twitter. As Ginner says, worth watching to the end:

https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1640311664334569473

https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1640311664334569473

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 28/03/2023 12:54

Codlingmoths · 28/03/2023 12:13

@Helleofabore I wish I felt like that would be the effect of the light. It seems more likely to me that there are no better candidates and instead if pesutto were pushed out it would be a worse leader, and far from attracting better people into the party decent candidates will stay the fuck away from the toxic mess and best case the libs exile in the wilderness with zero say in policy is longer. Worst case they cease to exist.

I hear you codling. I hear you.

I think though we both agree that two strong parties is a good thing. And I suspect we agree on many aspects of this sad mess.

Codlingmoths · 28/03/2023 13:05

Absolutely we agree on most of this :)

IcakethereforeIam · 11/05/2023 20:50

IcakethereforeIam · 27/03/2023 14:57

Oh, I know fuck all about Australian politics but that sounds like a game changer. Can she, would she appeal against a suspension? Has she been suspended? If so, on what ground? Defamatory? I hope she sues.

Perhaps I know more than I thought, though I can't read the article through the payroll

https://twitter.com/rachelbaxendale/status/1656531485841825792?s=20

https://twitter.com/rachelbaxendale/status/1656531485841825792?s=20

IcakethereforeIam · 11/05/2023 20:50

Blushpay wall

Helleofabore · 11/05/2023 22:06

Try the link in this tweet.

https://twitter.com/rachaelwongaus/status/1656568615427244033?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

I read this today and am hoping t brings good news for Moira. It is interesting to note that the lawyer she has advising her wrote an Australian textbook on defamation. He has clout. So this is going to be a big deal.

I have been told that by removing Moira, it lowers the numbers for the opposing Victorian Liberal leadership potential. Pesutto only won leadership by a very close margin and this could be a political move as well for when someone challenges him, which may be on the cards with the way he has dealt with this.

https://twitter.com/rachaelwongaus/status/1656568615427244033?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

Hepwo · 11/05/2023 22:27

This is going to be very interesting to see play out.

The mansteria and mansplaining was a sight to behold.

You realise very quickly how paper thin the veneer of civilisation actually is at these points in time.

This destruction of civil behaviour is what JK Rowling refers to in the last episode of the witch hunt podcast series. It's very dark and must be hauled out into the light.

IcakethereforeIam · 11/05/2023 22:38

Thanks @Helleofabore that did the trick. I only wish KJK could sue the fucking lot of them as well...and the lying, stirring bunch of bastards in NZ.

Helleofabore · 11/05/2023 22:50

You and me both cake. Maybe KJK could use the same expert on defamation.

Codlingmoths · 11/05/2023 23:43

Interesting! ‘Left wing Jewish feminist Angie jones’ is nice accurate reporting, a huge improvement on extremist feminist or whatever has been said. This article is the Australian to be fair.
I can’t tell whether hiring this star in the field is a good sign or just shows how determined Moira is despite not having a strong case. It’s all brinkmanship and pesutto would be in a much stronger position had he issued a support of free speech but condemn anything nazi statement and then left well enough alone.

Codlingmoths · 12/05/2023 03:20

And deeming is out. I think this outcome was pesuttos only chance as staying leader so I hope he does better at it from here on. I hope very much he doesn’t actually think her views on this particular topic are wrong but who knows.

I would be surprised if that’s the last we hear of Deeming though, she seems very determined.

Helleofabore · 12/05/2023 06:26

Why wouldn’t Moira now follow through and take pesutto to court? She has nothing to lose now.

DontGetEvenGetEverything · 12/05/2023 07:55

FOJN · 27/03/2023 15:13

I suppose it will leak out sooner or later if there is any truth to it.

It's a terrible state of affairs when you don't feel you can trust anything you read and wonder what is true and what is an attempt to smear a political opponent.

This, I think, is the crux of the issue.

I'm kind of torn on this. Most people in Victoria believe that Deeming went to a NAZI rally. Yes, it's a very bad state of affairs when mainstream media spreads such misinformation, but appearances do matter. If lots of people believe that Liberal party members can attend a NAZI rally and get nothing more than a slap on the wrist, that is not good. I worry that would normalise nazism.

Crazy situation we're in. I hope against hope this does bring sunlight, for larger swathes of the population. But I fear the spread of accuate details about this situation remains niche.

Helleofabore · 12/05/2023 08:53

DontGetEvenGetEverything

That would mean it would be even better for this case to go to court. Because if the media has to then report that the women had nothing to do with the Nazi blokes turning up, it will start to change that misinformation. Actually, I believe the Australian media was guilty of disinformation in the way they portrayed the Let Women Speak rallies.

Do you live in Australia? Do we have a problem with people believing that nazism is becoming normalised?

dimorphism · 12/05/2023 09:06

Helleofabore · 12/05/2023 06:26

Why wouldn’t Moira now follow through and take pesutto to court? She has nothing to lose now.

She has money to lose. Most people can't afford to sue for defamation because it costs a lot of money. Justice is only really available for the rich in these matters.

I hope she is able to pursue this and has some means of raising the money to do so.

Helleofabore · 12/05/2023 09:09

dimorphism · 12/05/2023 09:06

She has money to lose. Most people can't afford to sue for defamation because it costs a lot of money. Justice is only really available for the rich in these matters.

I hope she is able to pursue this and has some means of raising the money to do so.

I would suggest that a crowdfunder will fix that issue.

Codlingmoths · 12/05/2023 10:47

Helleofabore · 12/05/2023 08:53

DontGetEvenGetEverything

That would mean it would be even better for this case to go to court. Because if the media has to then report that the women had nothing to do with the Nazi blokes turning up, it will start to change that misinformation. Actually, I believe the Australian media was guilty of disinformation in the way they portrayed the Let Women Speak rallies.

Do you live in Australia? Do we have a problem with people believing that nazism is becoming normalised?

We do a bit, the far right generally and nazism specifically. There have been a few feature articles in the last few years on how all across australia (mostly) men are being radical online to join the aryan brotherhood etc. I think I agree with dontgeteven about the perception it creates - the media who think they are the servant of good here are to blame. That’s what was refreshing about the article shared above from the Australian - moderate accurate language.

Codlingmoths · 12/05/2023 10:48

*radicalised

Helleofabore · 12/05/2023 10:59

I know sovereign nation is a growing concern, the QLD seige was not far from where I grew up, but to me nazism / aryan nation is a different group all together. I rarely think of it is being ‘normalised’ though. Because if it is, that is a grave concern.

However, surely people are looking at this and thinking there is something distinctly off here? Thinking a feminist rally is aligned with the Nazis?

The coverage actually led me to have more discussions with family and friends who wanted to know what the fuck Pesutto was on about.

DontGetEvenGetEverything · 15/05/2023 02:06

@Helleofabore "Do you live in Australia? Do we have a problem with people believing that nazism is becoming normalised?"

I am in Australia.

I'm more worried about the appearance that open, public debate serves as a front for unashamed, public displays of hate - that anyone who says she wants to talk about the effects of replacing "sex" with "gender identity" in our laws, segregated public amenities, prisons &c. actually just want masked nazis to be able to seig heil in our streets.

I don't know how to push back against that (mis)perception when repoting is so dishonest. I really hope Deeming's story is widely reported on, maybe litigation would lead to that. I fantasize about an Aussie Megan Phelps-Roper to bring sunlight, to shift the public convo so it's actually reality based.

I'm glad you've had good conversations with family and friends about this. I found the saturation of disinformation so disheartening I didn' know where to start. "You can't trust the mainstream media" just sounds so kooky!! I can't believe where things have gotten to. The best I could think to do was question why there was no political will on either side to ban protest attendees from being masked (which makes alot more sense than banning slutes which does impinge on free expression and allows for so much plausible deniability it will never be prosecutable), but I don't think I planted any seeds.

Helleofabore · 15/05/2023 08:21

DontGetEvenGetEverything · 15/05/2023 02:06

@Helleofabore "Do you live in Australia? Do we have a problem with people believing that nazism is becoming normalised?"

I am in Australia.

I'm more worried about the appearance that open, public debate serves as a front for unashamed, public displays of hate - that anyone who says she wants to talk about the effects of replacing "sex" with "gender identity" in our laws, segregated public amenities, prisons &c. actually just want masked nazis to be able to seig heil in our streets.

I don't know how to push back against that (mis)perception when repoting is so dishonest. I really hope Deeming's story is widely reported on, maybe litigation would lead to that. I fantasize about an Aussie Megan Phelps-Roper to bring sunlight, to shift the public convo so it's actually reality based.

I'm glad you've had good conversations with family and friends about this. I found the saturation of disinformation so disheartening I didn' know where to start. "You can't trust the mainstream media" just sounds so kooky!! I can't believe where things have gotten to. The best I could think to do was question why there was no political will on either side to ban protest attendees from being masked (which makes alot more sense than banning slutes which does impinge on free expression and allows for so much plausible deniability it will never be prosecutable), but I don't think I planted any seeds.

I understand completely. I think the difference is that I immediately start discussing women in prison with male people, and male people in women and girl’s sports . I remember when I was over and having in person conversations last year and people talked about Kath Deves. I immediately asked if they knew what she was talking about, rather than discussing her politics or they words she used.

I guess it has been from my years dealing with the ad hominem attack style on here, not that my friends or family were attacking anyone, they were just repeating the media reporting .

It was during Kath Deves campaign that I realised just how badly biased and opinion driven the media had got in Australia. I have a few friends who were journos and each of them lost their roles (often at editor level) in the early 2010s due to cost cutting. I suspect that has allowed media to publish much more ‘opinion editorial’ rather than straight, focus on facts reporting. As you say, talking about how biased mainstream media has become sounds ‘kooky’ indeed.

So, I don’t even mention it really either.

I had an interesting conversation to that effect with some friends from the USA recently. They had told me that they never trusted anything but the Guardian and a handful of other outlets (all who have a bias in reporting on male people in female sport competitions.). I was spending a few days with them so the hour I spent discussing women’s sports research and the affirming only medical treatments etc was possible. I showed them the studies and they were shocked at the reporting they had believed. It really is a shock when you see the discrepancies and the dishonest wording.

I don’t know how that is going to change. There was a poster who did spend some time on this board last month who posted the usual tropish statements, but this time they stuck around when people pointed out just how logically flawed the statements were. They kindly posted a link to a hour long video they had watched which convinced them that feminists were all about biological essentialism, and were actively seeking to pull laws about same sex marriage and abortion and contraception. The video was from an extreme trans ally who dishonestly used ‘gender critical’ to lump together any group that believed in the universal truth that sex cannot change. They then placed all the blame on the feminists. When you have Pesutto repeating views formed from similar rhetoric, it is very disheartening.

I notice that that neo-Nazi group has been active again this weekend. Surely questions have to be asked what the fuck happened that day when police seemingly let those men in beside the women? The whole thing seemed like madness? They had to have been known by police. The connection with one of them having their father in the force was known. That was a bizarre security breach that potentially could have resulted in physical harm to many women, except the women are not violent reactionaries. I now suspect that the neo-nazi group was using Let Women Speak as a ‘test’ to see how they can access protests to maximise air time.

I always knew there were such groups in Australia festering away. I never thought they would get so wide spread. And never thought people would think they were ‘normalised’ as such. That they would believe ludicrous associations such as feminist women would have associations with neo Nazis!

So, thank you for your answer.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread