DeSantis to expand "don't say gay" to all grades

[PorcelinaV]

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/03/22/desantis-ban-all-grades-sexual-orientation-gender-dont-say-gay/11525446002/

"The rule change would ban lessons on sexual orientation and gender identity from grades 4 to 12, unless required by existing state standards or as part of reproductive health instruction that students can choose not to take."

If they wanted to teach both sides of the "gender identity" debate to older kids I wouldn't have so much of an issue with that, but as it's just probably going to be one-sided indoctrination it's better that the whole subject is either banned or strictly regulated imo.

Good. We need to protect children from Gender Ideology and teachers and administrators who are foot soldiers for the cult. De Santis has a good chance of winning on that issue alone here in the USA, and he is given credit by everyone I know here for standing up and protecting children, as well as calling Disney’s bluff.

It's not an unusual position for Republican (i.e. right wing, often overtly Christian/religious right) politicians. When George W Bush was president he introduced abstinence-only sex education and it led to a huge rise in teen pregnancies and STIs. I anticipate a similar situation in Florida if all sex education is basically banned in high school. I'm in favour of gender woo being binned from school curricula, but to ban sex education? That's neglectful and morally wrong.

Actually, re-reading that article I'm wrong - he's not proposing a ban on sex education - but I do think it's wrong not to discuss sexual orientations that aren't straight with teenagers. Sex education should be for all, including gay kids!

another hit for people with same sex attraction from the forced teaming with heterosexuals who want to a) assert they aren't boring b) have permission to ignore other people's boundaries or c) ignore safeguarding rules (although I make no comment as to the motives they may have to do so)

Absolutely

It seems to say same sex relationships may be discussed if on the sexual health curriculum. I would be very ok with any and all lessons on sex and gender being part of a careful structured lesson set at a state/national level. As opposed to the teacher discussing it based on their own opinions.

Gender ideology needs to get in the bin. I'm very happy to see that outlawed from schools. I'm very unhappy that teaching about same sex relationships is, seemingly, being chucked out at the same time. Fucking forced piggy backing of the TQIA+++whatever the fuck else onto the LGB. Homosexuals are going to end up dealing with the backlash from this shit.

You need to parse this stuff very, very carefully. There are many in the media with huge vested interest and record of misrepresentation. Starting from the "don't say gay" framing itself.

I'm quite willing to believe many on the Republican side are going to try to use this sort of thing to push their ideology, and I can well imagine any of this stuff getting misused, but there is a problem that needs addressing. Whether this addresses it well, I dunno.

One of the repeated themes has been trying to work around curriculum rules by trying to shoehorn gender stuff into pretty much every other subject, so that it escapes established rules on sex education. At first sight this seems to be closing that loophole - previously a "don't cover sex education stuff in lessons other than sex education" rule didn't seem necessary... Is the stuff about "reproductive health instruction that students can choose not to take" the existing general policy there - are such lessons already mandated as optional?

It's generally useful to try to find the actual text of any bill being discussed. Whenever I have, usually they're far more considered, nuanced and reasonable than any media discussion.

The way DeSantis' laws in FL have been reported in the mainstream US media is ridiculous - but that's the US media for you - always very black and white and with a hysterical tone designed to whip people up into a righteous fervor. They were screaming about DeSantis' 'book ban' not long ago. The books that were being removed from school libraries were ones with graphic descriptions of sex, books that were factually incorrect, books pushing the gender identity agenda, sometimes to kids of primary age, and discussing different genders and sexual kinks. Most parents were absolutely horrified that these books were available in classrooms for their primary age DC to pick up and look at and there was wide support for the ban.

I don't know that his would bother me. If it's done the way it's described, it would place sex education as mainly being focused on biological issues and pretty basic neutral stuff. Which is fine, I don't think state sponsored sex education has any real business teaching values where the families of the students may differ considerably in their views.

And from what I've seen in my kids schools about what they learn about sexual orientation, I don't think I particularly trust them to get that right either, it seems to include some first class bollocks.

Teachers ask a lot of trust from parents, and if they abuse it they really should not complain that parents just withdraw it. There's not some kind of right the state has to try and influence kids on these topics, and they don't have some special qualifications for it anyway.

All I really want is for me and my children to be able to trust their school

that means school doesn’t present to them as facts things which are self evidently untrue, like ‘sex is assigned at birth’ ‘sex and gender are the same’ or ‘boys who wear dresses might be girls’

American politics is a minefield and I think Desantis is mostly awful, but this seems ok