They walk among us

[TooManyAnimals94]

I've ummed and ahhed about posting this but I've been following this topic for a while now and sometimes I feel you are the only sane people anywhere.
I had a conversation slightly heated debate with a colleague today that initially made me angry and now I'm feeling quite upset about it because I realised that so few people actually LISTEN TO WOMEN.

Our school had a charity football match to raise money for Stonewall's Inclusion in Sport initiative. For reasons I'm sure you can understand I did not participate in any way and sat in the staff room minding my own.
There were two others there and we're having a jokey conversation about how they weren't joining in because they're no good at sport. I said (and maybe I shouldn't have) that I thought it was a questionable charity, especially for an all girl's school.
They asked me what I meant and I said I believed Stonewall did some excellent work a few years ago but they have lost their way and seem obsessed with supporting aggressive TRAs, getting self ID made into law and endangering women and girls.
One of the two (a biology teacher- go figure) completely understood what I meant about single sex spaces and said before I could that self ID could lead to predators taking advantage.
The second man proceeded to tell me that TWAW, men are no more of a threat than another woman? And in the countries where self ID had been brought in, nothing awful had happened. I couldn't really counter this because I don't know that much about Ireland, Finland or NZ (but I plan to find out!)

But this is what really shocked and horrified me. I said, what if a woman who has been raped or abused by her partner flees to a refuge and the first member of staff she meets is a biological male. Does she not have the right to a completely safe space? And he said "But that hypothetical person is not a man, she's a transwoman and is no more of a threat than any other woman"

I said what about perceived threat ? And he basically shrugged and said women should "accept " TWAW.

He also said segregation in prisons was not necessary because TW were just as vulnerable as women and self ID wouldn't affect bathrooms and changing rooms because it's already illegal to sexually harass someone in a changing room. Oh ok we'll just wait till there's an actual assault then shall we? Just offer women and girls up as sacrificial lambs.

I tried a different route and said OK, well what does it mean to "feel like a man" and he came out with some waffle about a combination of biology and culture??

This is a man with an Oxford doctorate. What on earth has happened to his brain? He's also a gay man who I'm sure would be horrified to be on a date with someone who turned out to have a vagina instead of a penis.

I'm quite thick skinned but I'm really upset at the fact my views were dismissed as right wing propaganda and my perfectly reasonable expectations of keeping single sex spaces mansplained away.

People would never suggest ethnic minorities are "silly" for talking about discrimination against them, or disabled people or any other group. Why this absolute refusal to listen to things that women have actually experienced?

@CoraggioCara

So either:
Transwomen rape more than women and so are not the same as women
Or
Sexual predators will take advantage of self ID and pretend to be transwomen to gain access to vulnerable women in prisons/hospitals etc.
Or both. But it cannot be neither. At least one of these statements must be true.

@fozwomble
Is it possible that trans women are more likely to be identifiable as a perpetrator of a crime because they are part of a minority group? Taking that further, if they are more likely to be caught then are they more likely to be discriminated against during investigation and sentencing, so more likely to receive a heavier custodial sentence?

Yes, fozwomble,it is quite possible that transwomen are more easily identified than either men or women - it's something I've wondered about. But it doesn't explain why so many of these imprisoned transwomen are there for sexual crimes - identification and sentence length would apply equally to other types of crime.

Sympathies, OP.

The only thing I'd disagree with is your sweet but naive assumption that racism is taken seriously either. We nearly had an institutionally antisemitic Corbynite government. While far right posters on this forum have been mocking me, a Jewish poster, because I dared to object to their lionising a notorious antisemite.

Unfortunately, both the supposedly progressive far left and the hard right couldn't care less about racism or misogyny. Whatever they may find it convenient to pretend.

Well said.

It would be unlikely that differential treatment in the justice system would result in as large differences as are observed when the percentages of all male prisoners who sentenced for sexual violence crimes are compared with the percentages of all trans woman prisoners who are also sentenced for sexual violence crimes. The difference between the two groups is very large, and roughly of the same size in England and Wales, the US, and Canada.

The other alternative explanation is that men who commit sexual violence crimes decide to identify as trans after being apprehended, both to get into more comfortable conditions in women's prisons and to get access to more prey.

But it would seem to me that the responsibility for the proof about trans women not being a danger to women in general is on those who argue that, given the evidence which exists.

Even if one trans woman attacked a biological woman in jail, that's one too many and an attack that wouldn't have happened had he been in the correct jail.
Funny how many men would also say TWAW but they wouldn't ever date or fuck one.
Sorry OP, your colleague simply isn't interested in womens oppression or the danger that women face.

That was my first thought

There's a long running thread here "it will never happen" which details article's describing that it happens pretty much weekly in the U.K.

I don't think this guy knows that most retain their penis - understandable given the risks involved in surgery. But are thus entirely capable of rape.

Question why we have single sex prisons and sport.
Then question in what way see these people women? Point out the sexism.

Ask him if he'd date a trans man.

Point out he's mansplaining to a woman that a man can be a woman.

Almost all of them do "transition" post-arrest.

The proportions (IIRC) are roughly something like 55% of self-declared TW in prison are sex offenders, compared to 18% of the general male prison population.

So as @CoraggioCara said, either TW have a MUCH higher sexual offending rate, or they lie about being trans (1) to get an easier time inside/access to further victims.

(1) Obviously, no male sexual offender would ever even dream about doing such a heinous thing as lying about anything like this, so they must just be a group which is particularly dangerous to women.

This