Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Italy proposing a ban on travel for surrogacy

18 replies

HermioneKipper · 22/03/2023 18:34

https://www.firstpost.com/world/surrogacy-ban-italy-planning-blanket-law-against-procreative-tourism-offenders-to-face-e1m-fine-12130102.html

Well done Italy!

Let’s hope it goes through

“Backers of the new legislation say through surrogacy babies were being treated as “merchandise” and that the birthing technique is an “execrable example of the commercialisation of the female body”.”

Image used for representative purpose. AFP

Surrogacy Ban: Italy planning blanket law against ‘procreative tourism’, offenders to face €1m fine

Surrogacy has been banned in Italy for nearly 20 years and the country’s hard-right Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni strives to extend that prohibition to couples who want to have a child in countries like US, India and Canada

https://www.firstpost.com/world/surrogacy-ban-italy-planning-blanket-law-against-procreative-tourism-offenders-to-face-e1m-fine-12130102.html

OP posts:
Clymene · 22/03/2023 18:34

Good. I hope more countries introduce sanctions against baby trafficking.

Helleofabore · 22/03/2023 18:40

I hope this is done in other countries. In fact, why is this not an EU initiative?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/03/2023 18:47

Good for Italy. Time for other countries to put a stop to this trade in babies.

ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 18:50

Yes, the EU, the UN and basically everyone should cone down hard on this barbaric trade. Human trafficking turned into an industry.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 22/03/2023 18:50

Excellent, well done Italy.

ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 18:51

*come not cone, thanks autocockup.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 22/03/2023 19:05

Helleofabore · 22/03/2023 18:40

I hope this is done in other countries. In fact, why is this not an EU initiative?

Not a chance. The Italian government is considered an extreme right-wing one - which just goes to show how muddled 'left-wing' and 'right-wing' categories have become, when it comes to women's bodily autonomy.

Stand by for lots of wailing about poor gay men being deprived of their chance of parenthood (to be clear, I object to anyone using a surrogate - gay men doing so are no worse than anyone else - I just expect most of the sob stories to centre on gay men).

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 22/03/2023 19:12

Good for them. Surrogacy, when thought about from the point of view of the baby, is abhorrent. And that's before you get to the exploitation of women's bodies.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 22/03/2023 19:21

Excellent.

MichelleScarn · 22/03/2023 19:22

Well done Italy!

FannyCann · 22/03/2023 21:04

Did I imagine it or did I see a similar proposal from Denmark (or possibly one of the other Nordic countries)?

I can't seem to find it now. 🤷‍♀️

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 22/03/2023 21:28

FannyCann · 22/03/2023 21:04

Did I imagine it or did I see a similar proposal from Denmark (or possibly one of the other Nordic countries)?

I can't seem to find it now. 🤷‍♀️

Commercial surrogacy is illegal in Denmark, and the surrogate has to use her own eggs, so I don't think it's common. Not aware of it being restricted further though.

Alpiniste · 22/03/2023 21:34

I don’t think this will fly. Won’t it come under freedom of goods and services under EU law. You cannot be prevented from travel to procure a service that is legal where you are purchasing it?

(which is not that I disagree ä, just that I don’t think this mechanism will work)

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 22/03/2023 21:52

Alpiniste · 22/03/2023 21:34

I don’t think this will fly. Won’t it come under freedom of goods and services under EU law. You cannot be prevented from travel to procure a service that is legal where you are purchasing it?

(which is not that I disagree ä, just that I don’t think this mechanism will work)

Most legal systems don't treat issues of fertility and surrogacy as goods and services, so I am not sure it is impossible to outlaw. More of an issue will be policing it - how would you know whether a couple who appear to adopt a baby from abroad had actually used a surrogate? If they use their own sperm and eggs, the child will be genetically theirs, so DNA testing won't help. If they use donor eggs or sperm, the one who is the biological parent could just claim the child is the product of a previous relationship.

I think it sends an important message, though.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 22/03/2023 21:56

FannyCann · 22/03/2023 21:04

Did I imagine it or did I see a similar proposal from Denmark (or possibly one of the other Nordic countries)?

I can't seem to find it now. 🤷‍♀️

I think Norway have been discussing something similar to Italy’s new law?

https://cne.news/article/1330-norwegian-minister-wants-to-punish-surrogacy-abroad

Norwegian Minister wants to punish surrogacy abroad

Having children through surrogacy can be compared to human trafficking. Therefore, the Norwegian Minister for Children and Families wants to punish Norwegians who have children with the help of surrogacy abroad.

https://cne.news/article/1330-norwegian-minister-wants-to-punish-surrogacy-abroad

ColdMeg · 22/03/2023 22:03

This is interesting and speaks to the deeply embedded Marianism in Italian culture, so much so that you can strongly argue that the true religion in Italy is actually the Cult of the Virgin Mary, particularly in a city such as Rome.

It's worth pointing out that this is what got designers Dolce and Gabbana in such a pickle some years back when one of them said that it was wrong to deprive a child of a mother with reference to gay couples commissioning surrogates.

The mother is revered in Italian culture, and it is intrinsically connected to Marianism. It's so deep rooted that it transcends politics there.

FannyCann · 23/03/2023 06:08

Ah thank you @CryptoFascistMadameCholet
I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

As @MissLucyEyelesbarrow says, a ban sends an important message even if it is difficult to police.

"About ten years ago, the Storting passed an exemption proposal which means that people who have children through surrogacy abroad cannot be punished. Toppe voted against the law change and still disagrees. "It is not a point for me to punish, but penal provisions are attitude-creating and support the seriousness of the legal provision. She says it is important to make it clear that there is a ban""

Of course the response from the pro-surrogacy lobby (from the article linked) is to open up the provision of surrogacy in Norway with regulations and that will mean people won't need to go abroad.

Just what our Law Commission here says. Hmm

Emotionalsupportviper · 24/03/2023 07:59

ArabellaScott · 22/03/2023 18:50

Yes, the EU, the UN and basically everyone should cone down hard on this barbaric trade. Human trafficking turned into an industry.

That's exactly what it is.

And the opportunities for paedophiles to take advantage of it are horrific.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page