Casey investigation into Met Police sexism

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/21/casey-review-rape-may-legal-london-met-police-officer-said/

'The detection rate for rape is now so low in London that “you may as well say it is legal”, one Met officer told a landmark review.

The damning report by the crossbench peer Baroness Casey found examples of bad practice in the way sexual cases were handled including freezers holding vital forensic evidence being too crammed to close and even breaking down.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65015479

'Women and children have been failed by the Metropolitan Police, with racism, misogyny, and homophobia at the heart of the force, a blistering review says.

Baroness Casey says a "boys' club" culture is rife and the force could be dismantled if it does not improve.'

[TooBigForMyBoots]

@TrombonesAreNotBones

How can the change be effected? We don't want racist, misogynistic homophobes policing us any more, we never wanted that anyway.

Disband them. Clear out the worst and most institutionalised. Restructure and recruit.

[Ramblingnamechanger]

When is anybody going to actually say that the problems are always due to men? It is so blindingly obvious by somehow no one every says it out loud..

[SalaDaeng]

Nothing has really changed since Stephen Lawrence.
Jimmy Saville and his buddies in the WY police.
Grooming gangs protected and enabled by police.
Scottish police arresting women for thought crimes.
It is all the same culture.
It is a bully boys club.

[Ponkyandthebrain]

As a police officer who specialises in violence against women and children I hope this report is going to be taken seriously by other chief cons. The government have had little constructive to say as usual.

I’ve never worked in the met and much of this I don’t recognise. These people would have been out like a shot where I work. Sexual assaults aren’t tolerated nor are racist comments. Casey’s report concluded that the Met are appallingly badly managed and have been for years which has led to an utter shit show and boys culture pervading well past the line of duty days it belongs in. It’s an embarrassment and I’ve no confidence Rowley who is an internal appointment for some god knows what reason is going to veg a grip of it when he won’t say the word structural.

However the structural misogyny is very familiar to me. The years of underfunding crimes that affect women and children is something I’ve been talking about for years and much to everyone’s annoyance I’ve been calling it what it is, misogyny.

The government needs to make violence against women and children a strategic priority for policing. It should have the same funding as CT and serious and organised crime. The sentencing for DV homicide should be the same as for other murders, not less which is currently the case.

The rape conviction rate comes down to poor funding and poor staffing. Yes there are other factors at play but that’s the bottom line. Austerity is an issue but the choices almost all police forces are making deprioritises women and children. They are not a ‘strategic priority’ for which we are accountable to the government. But we are not calling for it either.

[Ponkyandthebrain]

I don’t think it is. Cressida Dick couldn’t acknowledge it either. Many chief cons are women but are they out there talking about structural misogyny, nope. We need the government to put their foot up our backside and force a change.

The met needs root and branch reform and maybe even disbanding and restructure. It stinks and it’s an embarrassment

Casey was on the newsagents podcast today and was really interesting to hear her thoughts until she said she had confidence in Rowley. I’m glad she does because no one else is getting that impression

[TizerorFizz]

@Ponkyandthebrain
The word not agreed about was “institutional”.

I do not see culture as the fault of the government. They are not the recruiters, the trainers or those with day to day oversight of the police. That squarely lies with the police. The government sets policy. It’s doesn’t manage. Therefore they can make laws that require change but the highly paid police chiefs need to do this work. Plus the police commissioners who have been silent.

The police have a history of not recognising their own shortcomings. That’s why they are in a mess. They don’t understand gross misconduct and dismissal for a start. They have different views from everyone else. It’s inevitable there are similar issues in other forces. The police are inward looking, concerned about overtime and pensions and preserving their macho appearance. They do not understand what the community needs. They understand their needs. It’s truly shameful.

[Ponkyandthebrain]

My mistake. He still needs to accept and understand it or make way for someone who does

No and I’m not saying the government are responsible for culture, they’re not. But one of the central issues of misogyny in Casey’s report was the underfunding of departments that service crimes that affect women and children. If the government made that a strategic priority we would be forced to ring fence funding. Sadly I do think we need to have it forced on us. I focus on that because I think that’s an issue across all 43 forces


Im not sure it’s a lack of understandjnt of gross misconduct. I think professional standards in the met is a circus and that’s laid bare by this report. But in terms of learning for the rest of us well it’s another area that has been laid to waste by austerity. Again this isn’t an excuse, it’s about choices. We have less money. So where do we spend our money. What is our priority. This hasn’t been one of them and it needs to be. Vetting must be iron clad. Professional standards investigations must be relentless in seeking out those not fit to serve. Again maybe this is change that has to be forced on us. Happily I’ve seen my own force increasing staffing in PSD which is long overdue.

I’m not here to argue or defend but I suppose to reflect on my experience of how widespread these issues are if anyone is interested. I’ve never worked in the met and some of the issues I’ve read in that report are alien to me thank goodness. I can’t understand that in 2023 she is having to tell the largest police force in the country they have to comply with the bare minimum on stop and search legislation which has not changed for 40 years. It’s absurd. Everyone else is doing that and have been for decades.

But sadly I do recognise some of the institutional issues and they are things that some of us lesser mortals trying to do a good job have been talking about for a long time. There is a culture in senior leadership of arrogance, not listening, blaming the media and unwillingness to change.

[ArabellaScott]

The government needs to make violence against women and children a strategic priority for policing.

I thought there had been noises about doing exactly this? Was it the WESC who'd called for it? My memory fails.

[Ponkyandthebrain]

Yep. We started making plans and it was pulled. Now are doing ‘reviews’ and talking a good game but there’s a lack of actual resources which is the key issue. We won’t ring fence funding unless we are forced to. It shouldn’t be that way, we should just listen to the public and change but that’s the police for you. It’s incredibly frustrating for those of us who work so hard at this with one hand tied behind our backs.

[ArabellaScott]

Ah, FFS. I can imagine. Thank you for what you do. I guess we just keep pushing - what choice do we have?

[AmuseBish]

Thanks for your insight Ponky . It seems like an interminable slog. Do you think any progress has actually been made in the past 30 or so years?

[Ponkyandthebrain]

I’ve been in ten years. Yes in that we talk about violence against women. We never used t shockingly despite how much of our work it makes up. But talking isn’t enough. We need to put our money where our mouth is.

Rape detection rates can be significantly increased, I’ve proved that it can be done. But it needs investment and sadly we are led by donkeys who have to be forced and embarrassed into it by the public and by officers speaking out.

Threads like this and the Casey review as shameful as they are gives me some hope that things will change. As tough as it is I want my views to be challenged because I’ve been part of an institution for ten years and I realise my opinions are probably shaped by it. I hope chief officers of all the forces have dwelled on this as much as I have and are challenging their own attitudes.

[Felix125]

I've been in 20+ years now and I think things have improved in that time in our force - especially when it comes to safeguarding or victims/survivors

CPS can be the thorn in our side though when it comes to detection rates

What department do you work in Ponky?

[Ponkyandthebrain]

I was Domestic abuse and child protection I’ve been moved to a another similar unit recently but centralised. Arguing with CPS to put nasty bastards in prison is my favourite hobby at work 🙃 It’s a good point though Felix. It needs to be a joint strategy. They suffer a lot of the same issues as we do.

[ArabellaScott]

Well, if women can help, let us know what we can do. Who do we write to? How do we put pressure on the ones we need to?

[Ponkyandthebrain]

@Felix125

I've been in 20+ years now and I think things have improved in that time in our force - especially when it comes to safeguarding or victims/survivors

CPS can be the thorn in our side though when it comes to detection rates

What department do you work in Ponky?

You’re probably right and things have changed more than I think. It’s frustratingly slow though isn’t it. You can see what needs to be done and the choices that need to be made. We’re obsessed with bloody drugs in the police and most of the public just don’t care about that anymore. Why don’t we just target our operations on drugs offences to those who exploit children and vulnerable adults or use firearms and divert some resources to our dilapidated domestic abuse and child protection units.

[TizerorFizz]

@Ponkyandthebrain
You are buying the guff that it’s all about money. It truly isn’t. It’s about attitudes and really wanting to do a good job. Too many mistakes are made by officers who fail to understand the importance of evidence and investigation. Culture and attitudes matter. This is what the report exposes. Money helps, but not if it’s spent on shit officers who don’t give a #€?!

[Ponkyandthebrain]

@TizerorFizz

@Ponkyandthebrain
You are buying the guff that it’s all about money. It truly isn’t. It’s about attitudes and really wanting to do a good job. Too many mistakes are made by officers who fail to understand the importance of evidence and investigation. Culture and attitudes matter. This is what the report exposes. Money helps, but not if it’s spent on shit officers who don’t give a #€?!

I think there’s two issues. One of things that issues specifically in the met. I can’t imagine working somewhere it’s ok to say racist things and keep your job. That’s alien to me and it’s an issue of both culture and management.

The other is structural and institutional issues and here we’ve talked about misogyny because of the nature of this board that I do recognise. It’s not about money per say, it’s about choices of how you spend that money. That’s the misogyny and the cultural issue. You say you care about something but you don’t because you don't resource it. I have excellent staff in the main but they are extremely overworked and there’s not enough of them.

I’ll wrote a better response when the baby is in bed. I didn’t want to disappear

[TizerorFizz]

@Ponkyandthebrain
I agree it’s important money is spent wisely and priorities reflect society. Elements of the Met spent money like water and ran a force within a force. Cressida Dick managed it so not enough critical oversight. It’s simply not good enough.

I see The Times thinks external management would help. I’d give it a go. The mould needs to be broken. Fresh eyes and an understanding of how to effect change. So it’s not just money, per se.

[Felix125]

Ponkyandthebrain
I've spent 20 years on emergency response and I am also a SOIT. What is causing headaches at the moment for us is the amount of safeguarding which other agencies pass on to us.

Social services who pass jobs onto police which are really theirs to sort out. Care homes that simply phone police when the residents and youths walk out and do nothing to stop them or chase after them. Custody staff not prepared to take the risk of a violent prisoner in a cell and want response cops to cell watch them. Hospitals who have vulnerable patients who just walk out and the staff saying that there is nothing they can do to stop them - the list is endless.

Then there is all the bureaucracy with case files and redactions - and having to have absolutely everything perfect before CPS will even look at it. And all the safeguarding takes an age to do as well.

All of this means we can't give any level of service to victims and incoming emergencies.

The reduction of police numbers has had an impact - meaning most of us are single crewed all the time. You could argue that the likes of Couzens used that to his advantage

[Felix125]

TizerorFizz
It does often come down to a numbers thing. You don't have enough available cops to get to the jobs.

Or you have cops responding to jobs - but are pulled away to a more urgent job. For example - you are dealing with a DV victim of ongoing harassment from their ex partner. Then a high risk suicidal missing from home job comes in. You will be diverted from the DV job to the missing from home one as the risk is higher. Then you may risk losing the evidence from the DV job.

You need more cops to cover the current way policing is done - unless you begin to push back on the amount of safeguarding stuff we have to do.

[Felix125]

ArabellaScott
Well, if women can help, let us know what we can do. Who do we write to? How do we put pressure on the ones we need to?

That will be down to MP's and PCC's. Write to them to get some changes implemented - that's what the PCC was brought in for. I badger our PCC when ever we see him in the briefings and our senior management, but it needs to come from the public as well.

You need more stringent vetting and continued vetting throughout to root out the cops who should not be in the job.

You need more cops and more support agencies prepared to take responsibilities for their part in safeguarding people - instead of just passing it onto police.

[ArabellaScott]

We don't have PCCs in Scotland.

[PleaseJustText]

My colleague left briefly to join the police force. She spent a year studying and exercising to make sure she could pass the tests. She was so enthusiastic and proud to be accepted on to the police force. After months of bullying from men and women she decided to leave. Over half of her cohort also left. Most who were still in post said they were hanging on long enough to stop it looking bad on their CV. When she raised the bullying with her mentor she was told to hold on until she finished training and transfer elsewhere. He was well aware of the bullying of new recruits but couldn't be arsed to fix it. That's when I stopped respecting the police.

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

so interesting to hear from police officers on this thread

this shocked the life out of me:

The sentencing for DV homicide should be the same as for other murders, not less which is currently the case.