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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some good news - Primark!

81 replies

Pootleplum · 20/03/2023 12:21

Just seen on Twitter that Primark have now designated some changing rooms women only. Will try and link.

OP posts:
Datun · 22/03/2023 13:54

ScrollingLeaves · 22/03/2023 13:42

Datun · Today 09:26
I'd bloody love Willoughby to sue. So much so, I'd contribute to their crowdfunder.

They won't tho. They know the law.

Unfortunately, if IW has a GRC they could win.
The original intentions of the Equality Act and GRC are no longer clear given the muddying of the word ‘sex’ the dreadful way the GRA was written conflating gender and sex, and Lady Haldane’s judgement.

If IW does not have a GRC she should lose - but only if the judge is not institutionally captured by Stonewall like the one in the Sheffield NHS changing room last summer.
www.legalfeminist.org.uk/tag/gender-reassignment-discrimination/

The lack of clarity over the meaning of “sex” was discussed during oral evidence given at the House of Commons at the beginning of the year. There are links in the OP here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4758082-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-3

This Times article mentions the effect of Lady Haldane’s judgement.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-to-debate-gender-petition-backed-by-jk-rowling-qh0h0bctk
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4534821c-bf89-11ed-b52d-512231a0c9aa?shareToken=a2be6368ec3ec1a7a1e413545f54b9d9

It would be good if there were a court case though. The law is a mess, everyone is confused, and this was not the intention.

Ah. It was my understanding that Willoughby wanted sue over the equality act protected characteristic, not the GRA.

And I still don't think they would. No one is going to thank Willoughby for cementing in law that the only men allowed, legally, to access female changing rooms are those with a gender recognition certificate.

But I genuinely hope it does eventually go to court. And yes, right after we get the equality act definition of sex sorted out.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/03/2023 15:02

Datun · Today 13:54
Ah. It was my understanding that Willoughby wanted sue over the equality act protected characteristic, not the GRA.

You may be right, but I think the Equality Act and GRA end up potentially clashing, with the GRC getting trumping power specially because of the lack of fool-proof clarity in the Equality Act that “sex” means biological sex. That seemed to be what Dr Michael Foran said in the oral evidence to the HoC.

That’s why it is nonsense to say easier GRCs would make no difference. (Even though no surgery or hormones are necessary for a GRC)

Gender Reassignment with no GRC does not have the same power ( except it did in that NHS judgement regarding the natal male with the protected characteristic of ‘Gender Reassignment’ as a woman, who mentioned taking off their underwear because they were ‘hot and sweaty’, was seen naked from the waist down by women in the changing room, but felt discriminated against and embarrassed when, following this, the manageress asked them if they always took off their underwear. They brought a law suit against the NHS trust and won. Legal people on this board thought the judgement was wrong.

A Catch 22 seems to be is that those who say they have the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment ( no diagnosis of dysphoria, no surgery, not even a stuffed bra, wig and lipstick necessary), may not be asked if they have a GRC. So they, and potentially any man who lies, end up being treated as though they do have one.

Waitwhat23 · 22/03/2023 15:27

ScrollingLeaves · 22/03/2023 07:51

MishyJDI · 20/03/2023 13:34
It would be illegal to turn away a person undergoing gender reassignment or intending to do so under the equality act, unless they risk assessed each person entering the changing room against whether stopping them would be proportionate to a legitimate aim.

Rubbish.

I sometimes wonder if the TRA's on here have ever attempted a quick read of the single sex exemptions of the EQA 2010.

Hint, single sex changing rooms and an 'exception to the general prohibition of gender reassignment discrimination' being the pertinent parts -

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

ScrollingLeaves · 22/03/2023 15:32

To be fair lobby and inclusivity groups have been pushing the false ideas MishyJDI just posted.

Beddfellows · 22/03/2023 19:53

They follow the Trump rulebook.

CliantheLang · 23/03/2023 00:01

Beddfellows · 22/03/2023 19:53

They follow the Trump rulebook.

Surely you mean the Starmer rulebook? People in glass houses, etc...

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