Do you think porn is going to get even more violent and men’s demand for so called ’kinky’ sex even stronger when hopefully women are getting braver to stay single?

[CantAskAnyoneElse]

While women started to get more educated, be more at the work force and having little bit more say in who and when or if they date, porn was pushed more and more to the mainstream and violent sex with that.

There has to be a correlation.

And now there has been quite a few articles and studies of women choosing to remain single (they don’t usually say, but I’m guessing some women at least are also opting out of having sex with men) and single and childfree women being happiest demographic.

Do you think that sexual behaviour, weather it’s porn / men using prostitutes / so called kinky community or ’sex positivity’ movement that is constantly eroding women’s boundaries, will get even more violent and degrading towards women?

Men have always been violent, regardless of porn. I’m sure it doesn’t help but it’s irrelevant, what women need to do is stay away from relationships with men and give relationships with other women a good go. Ask any lesbian, they will tell you it is so much better than being beholden to a man.

I do not believe this for o e second. It's men

But we aren't losing the ability to mate (at least not in the UK). The birth rate is at about 1.7/1.8 and has hovered around that mark for the past 40 years. It is below replacement level and that will cause issues. But it isn't anything like a population crash. Also about 80% of women have children - which is less than in the 50s but the 50s were unusual. The main reason for the declining birth rate is women having less children, not less women having children.

Compared to other parts of the world we are doing OK. And if overcrowding is an issue I think a gradual decrease and then stabilisation (which we have) is better than continued growth and a population crash.

Sorry - I know its off topic. But I've seen the "decadent west destroying itself" doomer narrative so many times and I don't think its accurate. China by contrast has probably the most heavily controlled population in the world and tight control over all propaganda - and they have been trying to persuade women to want children for years and failed miserably (Chinese women are the least likely to say they want children than anywhere else in the world).

Sorry that was meant to be @Xant

Nowhere in that article does it define how much violent porn women are watching so it's a bit of a stretch to say "much of the demand" is from women

It might seem as if you have an agenda....

Yes, on one level, given that we've seen in recent years what's apparently a big rise in violent porn, this is likely to continue. But on the other hand, how can it get more violent? If already there is strangulation, there is physical violence? What else is left? Mutilation? Snuff porn?

I think it will get worse regardless of what women do or don't do .

1. There is a systemic breakdown of boundaries going on at the moment.

1. After a while people become desensitised, it doesn't give you the same "kick" so they look for more,they ask for more and where there's a demand, there will be a product.

What else is left? Mutilation? Snuff porn?

Videodrome.

Yes

It says women watch more violent porn than ever. That means more women watch violent porn than women did in the past not that they watch more violent porn than men. But its still concerning.

I have recently discovered Jon Uhler on YouTube. He can speak with considerable authority on this and all of it is scary. He tracks landmark moments in society with what he then sees in his practice.

He asked a bunch of deviant sexual predators what they thought of 50 Shades. They think it wonderful as women are now grooming themselves!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/13/deepfake-pornography-explosion

Deepfakes at least.

"But the example of these apps – and of the men, like Ewing and his fans, who use them – also illuminates something older, and more uncomfortable, about the nature of porn: that men often use it as an expression of their contempt for women, and feel that the sexual depiction of women degrades and violates them. This is, in fact, much of mainstream porn’s appeal, at least according to the sentiments of many of the men who consume it: that it enables men to imagine themselves in control of women, and of inflicting pain and degradation on them. Deepfake revenge porn, then, merely fulfills with technology what mainstream porn has offered men in fantasy: the assurance that any woman can be made lesser, degraded and humiliated, through sexual force. The non-consent is the point; the humiliation is the point; the cruelty is the point.

"There is no other way, really, to understand deepfake pornography’s appeal: it is not as if the internet lacks sexual content depicting real and consenting adults. What these apps offer their users is specifically and explicitly the opportunity to hurt women by forcing them into pornography against their will. After Ewing exposed his deepfake pornography to his streaming audience in January, one of the women depicted issued her own tearful video, describing how the malice and violation of the deepfake had wounded her. In response, a man sent her a picture of her own crying face appearing on his tablet. The screen was covered in semen.

"For now, the women and others who are targeted by deepfake revenge porn have few avenues of legal recourse. Most states have laws punishing revenge porn, but only four – California, New York, Georgia and Virginia – ban nonconsensual deepfakes. Companies hosting the apps are often based overseas, mostly beyond the reach of legal enforcement – the company whose app was advertised on Meta appears to be owned by a parent company based in China. Meanwhile, more and more men will begin to use the technology against more and more women. "

Anyone here sorta wish the plug was just pulled?

Speaking also from personal experiences (I'm 34)
I can remember reading magazines when I was a teen - 13/14/15, things like J17 - how it was quite normal to fantasise about things like being raped and it didn't mean you actually wanted to be raped.
Tv and films have been presenting the notion of rough sex as norm more and more. And the very graphic nature of tv and film (shows such as game of thrones) would not have happened were it not for public acceptance of porn and how this has desensitised us, in my opinion. Same with the sorts of material we see on the news - very graphic and traumatising.

It's very difficult to know who watches porn - people tend to be more careful when making these types of searches and women especially may not be honest about what they watch.

I think, speaking of younger generations, you might be surprised that women are watching quite 'hard core' porn - comparatively to what older generations might watch. And I think that their brains are changing as a result - in terms of pleasure/ pain and actual physiological responses.

We know from a&e records that more and more young women are ending up in hospital due to injuries from rough sex.

Porn is addictive, for men and women.

The internet has brought us the best of things, but also the absolute worst of things. Porn and the surrounding industries of sex trafficking of women and children being one of the very worst.

That's interesting. I'm sure women do watch more compared to what they did in the past. And it can affect them, so it is a concern even if it's not as ubiquitous as with men.

I work in a library, and I would say that the primary source of erotica for women is books rather than film. Women want a story. There has for a long time been a huge amount of books that are essentially about women being swept away, overpowered, and so on, usually by very masculine, rich, not very nice men. But in the last while there has been a real upsurge in books that seem to be a lot more violent and on the edge, and are marketed as such.

@DemiColon I’ve spent time behind the library desk myself. Jon Uhler talks to Benjamin Boyce about that very notion - that blokes will get into whatever is put in front of them as a picture but that women will narrate the story they have just seen or read. If the story normalises sexual violence, then that is what women will absorb and thus accept in their relationships. All good for deviant sexual predators.

I recall sheila Jeffreys saying in 'Unpacking Queer Politics' that a lot of what ends up in heterosexual porn actually starts off in gay porn. That's most likley where the 'anal' started, for one.

Yes, absolutely, and I can’t see why it hasn’t been.

Not all men are violent (except likely in a battle, and that is controlled violence) and most women want a relationship - and sex - with a man, not a woman. I lived through 'elective lesbianism' and it really did not work for most women any more than the feminist ideology that demanded women do the same things as men worked for most women (Germaine Greer agrees with me btw on that sort of feminist ideal and so, some extent, Kathleen Stock). Most of us want an intimate relationship with a loving man - and that is possible. To suggest we jettison that is pretty counterproductive. Unfortunately, the porn industry has been allowed to grow unchecked because of appeals to 'freedom of speech', when pornography has nothing to do with either freedom of speech or freedom of action - there, in the direction of the porn industry, is where we should direct our energies, not on suggesting that most women give up men.

We know from a&e records that more and more young women are ending up in hospital due to injuries from rough sex.

Again, that says little about differences between women and men. Unless more and more young women are ending up in hospital due to rough lesbian sex.

Porn is mainly used by men. Therefore the content is targeted at men. Therefore I think the hypothesis that men are driving the rise in violent, degrading porn, and consequently expecting that kind of sex in real life is a much more likely explanation than women are doing it to themselves.

I link this study a lot. It is research into the increase in anal sex in heterosexual teens and found that girls have anal sex even though its painful and damaging to them.

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/8/e004996

"The main reasons given for young people having anal sex were that men wanted to copy what they saw in pornography, and that ‘it's tighter’. The implication was that ‘tighter’ was better for men and was something men were said to want, while women were expected to find anal sex painful, particularly the first time. The ‘pornography’ explanation seems partial at best, not least because young people only seemed to see this as motivating men, not women.......We found other important explanations and motivations in young people's accounts, as we will see below.Key themes emerged from our interviews that help explain why the practice continued despite narratives of women's reluctance, expectations of pain for women and apparent lack of pleasure for women and men: competition between men; the claim that ‘people must like it if they do it’ (alongside the seemingly contradictory expectation that it will be painful for women); and—crucially—normalisation of coercion and ‘accidental’ penetration."

I've known one or two blokes who were into anal sex with their partners (not receiving, the hypocrites!). They felt it was as if they totally possessed their partner in every way.

They happened to be homophobic but couldn't see the contradiction* when i put it to them.

*Disclaimer: I appreciate not all, and possibly not even the majority of gay male sex is about anal.

Men have always, ALWAYS policed women’s sexuality. Men even used to be able to put their wives in a mental institution if she claimed to have had an orgasm. This is just the latest way of them doing it since the sexual liberation movement.

I think it's driven by the need to dominate men tend to be more dominant than women and society gives them greater licence to express their dominance.
Men see their power slipping away as women have access to higher paid jobs which means they do not have to be beholden to men, in response men reach for other ways to dominate and control women.

and some people say "care in the community" is bad thing.

That is we exactly what's happening. There are quite a few studies now which prove how porn alters the brain. The way in which the changes in stats on erectile dysfuction have coincided with the advent of the internet and then smart phones are very telling.

I posted this link at the weekend but it's worth posting again for anyone who is interested:

It's part of series of lectures delivered at a conference hosted by the Catholic Medical Association, they all worth watching and include two lecture by Gail Dines who is a bit of an expert on the porn industry. Her book Pornland is on my reading list.

There is a campaign in the states called Fight The New Drug which aims to tackle porn use in teenagers so perhaps there is some hope now we have knowledge.