More isolation tactics – or am I imagining it?

[Righthandcider]

This might not seem like a subject for FWR but bear with.

Yesterday my 12-year-old said, “I’m really interested in fighting climate change.” So I asked her about it. The first thing out of her mouth was, “Well, your generation has completely ruined the planet and my generation’s future.”
This kicked off a long conversation about over-simplification, the appeal of feeling like you’re part of a group with a common enemy, etc.

(I also pointed out how often we ask her not to leave lights on all over the house, or say no, we’re not putting the heating on in the whole house just so that you can have a warm towel, etc.)

The way she phrased it has really stayed with me. It’s so obviously a message she’s been fed via friends / SM – and it’s clearly intended to turn kids against their parents. It doesn’t seem like a stretch that this messaging isn’t really coming from groups interested in addressing climate change, so much as groups interested in driving a wedge between parents and children.

Am I paranoid?

My answer does tend to be along the lines of 'That's great. Do you think you'll go into the technological side and look at greener fuels, or the research end of atmospheric chemistry? Or are you more thinking about helping with adaptations to climate, or economic measures to help people switch away from oil?'

Assume she wants to work on the problem, not just rant. Take it from there.

No point in having a philosophical argument when she could actually form part of the solution (though the general measure is 'warming since pre-industrial times', so unless you are over 150 years old, it's a bit much to blame it all on your generation).

I do think young versus old has become a new frontier for hostility and division; with the older generation being positioned as 'privileged' and the younger generation 'dispossessed'. Youth has become lionised to the extent that ever younger people are becoming spokespeople on major issues ( Greta Thunberg, for example), and local councillors and MPs are getting ever younger. Mhari Black was 19 when she was elected to parliament.

I'm not buying it, myself - but there is significant energy behind it. I was in the Body Shop earlier and they had a screen behind the counter relaying information about the fact that 50+ % of the world's population is now supposedly under 30, and yet the average age of national leaders is 60+ - suggesting that we need more younger people in positions of power or influence.

Thanks both. I don't think I was clear in the OP.

What I'm really saying is that the exact wording made it seem like deliberate messaging, not from environmental groups but from other movements who see a piggybacking opportunity: a way "in" to start presenting parents as the enemy, for other nefarious reasons.

"Your parents have ruined the planet and your future" being a natural preliminary to "come and find your real family".

I understand your point Righthandcider but isn't it the way of the world for young people to challenge their elders, to see them as problematic and out of date? I do agree that there are groups weaponising this. I think we tackle this by adults retaining their authority, ensure that the young are listened to and their views respected without abandoning all critical thinking in the face of evidently naive / irresponsible / demands.

Think we all said similar when we were young.
I distinctly remembering saying something about recycling circa 1988 to be rubbished by dm. ( who now recycles) animal rights and cnd were also very active annoying the older generations.(rightly)

younger generations are historically supposed to rebel and teenage years are the start of heightened political awareness. Although I’m not sure millennials did a lot of rebelling…

I do think young versus old has become a new frontier for hostility and division; with the older generation being positioned as 'privileged' and the younger generation 'dispossessed'.

A bit like in the sixties, yeah?

I was born in the 1950s. My parents never had a car, all the kids I knew went to the local (primary) school and all walked there and back, rain or shine. Bus to and from secondary school if it wasn't walkable The only heating in our house was a gas or electric fire in the living room. The immersion heater went on once a week, and we shared bathwater. The milkman delivered in glass bottles which were washed and returned, as I do now. We got pennies back on 'pop' bottles when we returned them.

Yes, things had shifted by the 1980s when my children were born. But it certainly wasn't the profligate free-for-all our world has become.

So, I'd say encourage your daughter to practise what she preaches: timed, infrequent showers, clothes from charity shops, less frequent washing of clothes & bedding, extra layers instead of cranking that thermostat up, the oven on only twice a week. And push her towards a suitable career.

It's definitely not a new thing, older people who were racist/sexist/homophobic were sneered at as dinosaurs when I was younger. I think it's a too easy characterisation to just tell someone they are old-fashioned rather than convince them to change their mind.

I'm slightly younger than you, born early 60s, but that all sounds very familiar. Add in that at Christmas/birthday you got one present for each occasion. There was one tv, if there even was one. One telephone per house, though many houses didn't have one and you walked to the phone box. Little choice in food, so you ate what there was or went without, and certainly no picking through the fridge or cupboards was allowed.

Maybe this girl could be encouraged to start growing vegetables in the back garden, as was common in the Olden Days. Learn to sow, to 'make do and mend', to cook from scratch.

You are not paranoid - modernity, the machine, capitalism - whatever we want to call it, acts as a solvent on all bonds, of course that includes parent and child.

Completely agree, @MrsOvertonsWindow. It certainly is the way of the world for young people to challenge the ideas of their elders. I just think there are people out there, and I mean adults, actively encouraging it because it serves their purposes very nicely.

I suspect there are many other conversations around social justice being infiltrated with messages designed to reinforce the "parents = bad" narrative.

It secures the idealogical capture in other areas if you can paint the only people speaking up as world-destroying baddies.

*ideological

Interesting.

My 16yo told me yesterday that he thinks old people over an unspecified age should not be allowed to vote in national elections and referenda because they won't have to live with the consequences of their actions, unlike his generation. This is reference to global warming and destabilising actions such as Brexit.

He's generally a very caring individual with a strong social conscience. And very realistic within his understanding of the world. But a massive consumer of online content.

I also thought it did not sound like his own opinion, but something learned from online influences. Almost like a pre-pre-radicalisation. Planting seeds of ideas.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session
"Struggle sessions or denunciation rallies were violent public spectacles in Maoist China where people accused of being "class enemies" were publicly humiliated, accused, beaten and tortured by people with whom they were close.[1][2] Usually conducted at the workplace, classrooms and auditoriums, "students were pitted against their teachers, friends and spouses were pressured to betray one another, [and] children were manipulated into exposing their parents".[2] Staging, scripts and agitators were prearranged by the Maoists to incite crowd support.[1] The aim was to instill a crusading spirit among the crowd to promote the Maoist thought reform."

Yes @JellySaurus. Planting seeds indeed.

I usually respond with I believe your talking about your grandmother...

I was eco before it was "popular" I learned to drive in my 40s because I had children (and our bus service was removed) or I wouldn't have bothered 😅

It wasn't what she said that bothered me so much as where she got the message 'you lot did this to us lot'.

It is natural and healthy for children to push away from their parents. So long as she doesn't run away from home and your relationship has plenty of good bits, I wouldn't worry about it.

She's made a rod for her back though. You could use her eco credentials to veto purchases from now on. 😉 See how long the green zeal lasts when Primark trips get binned.

Well I see this as a marvellous opportunity for her to show you what you should have done by being the change she wants to see. So no new clothes, no new tech, no lifts in the car, she can be in charge of recycling and composting and possibly growing veg, not showering too often, no makeup, only locally sourced food... terrific example.

That's a fascinating idea, OP, and does tie in with certain other trends that we've seen recently. I'm just about to go out so don't have time to think of examples, but the secrecy about what is taught in the RSE lessons delivered by external companies springs to mind.

Accelarationism, perhaps?

My DD came home recently with a similar idea in her head. I tod her that my generation invented recycling and renewable energy.

That's one I'll have to look up! Thanks.

This was Greta's message, surely? That the adults had "done" this to children with their bad decisions?

There's no historical understanding in that claim, and no self-knowledge, but it was certainly feted by the media and political leadership.

NA(x)ALT, insert own x as required.