Joanthan Haidt article on why 'emotional thinking' causes depression in young women

[purplevipersgrass]

It's quite a long article and covers a lot of ground, but basically it posits that the kind of catastrophic ('Terfs want to hurt and kill transpeople'), black and white (TWAW, No Debate) and emotional thinking ('Ignore the facts, be kind') that we associate with TRAs and young people is responsible for actively causing depression — particularly among young liberal women. Being conservative and less inclined to being a bleeding heart offers some protection.

Haidt points out that CBT, used to treat depression, is designed to tackle and dismantle these unhelpful ways of thinking, but movements such as genderism instil and rely on them.

jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/mental-health-liberal-girls?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

I read that over the weekend and it's an excellent & considered piece. I want to go back through it and pull out the 'learning points' so I can help keep my DGD on track.

Yes this is nothing new and I have posted about this type of thinking on depression threads a lot. I think its a big contributor to the increase in MH or emotional wellbeing difficulties for young people

It's such a good piece.

This section about locus of control is particularly informative :
"Locus of control. As first laid out by Julian Rotter in the 1950s, this is a malleable personality trait referring to the fact that some people have an internal locus of control—they feel as if they have the power to choose a course of action and make it happen, while other people have an external locus of control—they have little sense of agency and they believe that strong forces or agents outside of themselves will determine what happens to them. Sixty years of research show that people with an internal locus of control are happier and achieve more. People with an external locus of control are more passive and more likely to become depressed".

He pulls together so much of the research about how this affects girls / young women in particular.

I love that he finishes by recommending that people listen to the Witch trial podcast.

I think I came across this the other day via Glinner. It's excellent, as is the piece that Haidt wrote for The Atlantic in 2015 with Greg Lukianoff, "The Coddling of the American Mind": archive.ph/RlsTg

They later co-authored a book of the same name.

It was interesting that he linked Frank Furedi's work in the noughties about the loss of freedom and risk in childhood to the loss of internal locus of control. I'm in my 60s and was allowed to roam, unsupervised, with other children (within limits, my mum was relatively cautious). Now I look back at some of the things we got up to, and some of the things I refused to get involved with, and I can see clearly that I learned that I had a degree of from a fairly young age. Very different to some of the extremely risk-adverse parenting that goes on now, with children hovered over even when they're at university. It explains the awful passivity of some children and yes, clearly, their depression.

I had a degree of control, not a degree from a very early age! The degree came later!

😂

Exactly this. I talk about this a lot. We unfortunately promote a victim mentality in society today, its so unhealthy.

progressive institutional leaders have specifically taught young progressives that catastrophizing is a good way to get what they want

This really jumped out to me in the piece. It's not just harmful to the people absorbing the message, it's also teaching them to be manipulative and refuse to take responsibility for themselves.

Look at the appalling use of (false) suicide stats in order to argue for a cause. It is essentially saying "if you don't give us what we want, you are responsible for the consequences of OUR actions".

Who uses the phrase "look what you made me do"? Abusers.

I've found it useful in a personal sense as well. Watching this whole shitshow emerge, it's easy to feel hopeless and "victimised". I find it helpful to remember that the majority of people are on women's side and, as no debate has been shown for the bullying that it is, society is now not only debating but challenging the removal of women's rights and child safeguarding.
People are refusing to be victimised any longer - and the emergence of so many courageous women and men is inspirational.

Excessive empathy (be kind) can in itself be toxic - young women in particular have placed themselves and each other under enormous social pressure in recent years to think constantly about the needs of others rather than their own. Rejecting that demand can result in harsh criticism, isolation, cancellation etc. But accepting it is obviously going to have tough psychological consequences.

In conclusion, I believe that Greg Lukianoff was exactly right in the diagnosis he shared with me in 2014. Many young people had suddenly—around 2013—embraced three great untruths:

They came to believe that they were fragile and would be harmed by books, speakers, and words, which they learned were forms of violence (Great Untruth #1).

They came to believe that their emotions—especially their anxieties—were reliable guides to reality (Great Untruth #2).

They came to see society as comprised of victims and oppressors—good people and bad people (Great Untruth #3).

that was a really interesting read.

And those three great untruths are on the money.

It's difficult to talk about with people though, because when you do, they seem to think that what is meant is that people consciously become victims.

But it's not that, or not just that. It's a learned way of processing that affects how your brain deals with reality from quite early on. It shapes people's perception of themselves. They aren't deciding to think of themselves as victims, that is how their brain is interpreting what happens around them.

I have friends who well-meaningly try and teach their kids to think this way, and hover to protect them, and I feel so terrible for the children.

Is this why I now see so many adult people (some even in their thirties) referring to feelings of not being safe in contexts where nobody is threatening them with anything worse than disagreement? That the world is dangerous, parents will protect you etc.? The absence of the stages where children learn, stage by stage, to act independently and face some risks (in age-appropriate and increasing levels, ideally)?

On the internal vs. external locus of control: It's probably not an accident that in many cultures boys are strengthened in feeling internal control and girls much less so.

Fascinating article, thanks for posting it OP 👍

I agree with all this. I also think the enforced lack of resilience by telling young people that they shouldn't listen to differing views or will be harmed by someone disagreeing with them, is also really bad for mental health.

Normal feelings have become pathologised, so rather than being a bit anxious, one is 'suffering from anxiety'.

Normal low mood at times, we all experience that, is clinical depression

Feeling unsafe instead of 'thats a bit awkward or uncomfortable'

(Im not minimising MH issues by the way as I have had clinical depression and anxiety)

Yes correct, its also about attachment which is our blue print for our relationship with ourselves but also with others.

The problem is that either a child learns to experience its caregiver in an unpredictable manner which leads to an external locus of control, or caregivers are behaving in a way which shows the child that life is frightening and dangerous or that life happens 'to them' rather than them being engaged with life as it were.

Anyone who has had bouts of major depression or anxiety or both and then also ordinary mood changes and ordinary stress knows that the two are not the same at all. Not even measurable along the same dimension, really.

The latter is like having an argument with a neighbour who mutters something mean under his breath, the former can be like that neighbour picking up an axe and coming after you.

Absolutely but its very difficult explaining that to someone whose feelings are being interpreted as clinical disorders when they're possibly not.

YES!!!

Toxic empathy - I think if you actually wanted to find a "female version" of toxic masculinity it would be that. Empathy is one of the most important skills but if its unbalanced in who its directed too, or if its prioritised over all else it becomes quite harmful.

I see an enormous loss of tolerance of discomfort.

Children being made to wear coats when they aren't cold, or sprayed with sunscreen and water bottles on a warm day. Parents who take snacks and a drink for their child whenever they leave the house.
Fallings out at school being called bullying.
Never failing in PE or competitions.
Never being told that sometimes life isn't fair, and you'll be punished for something you didn't do, but you probably got away with something a different day so it all evens out.
An expectation that systems need to account for all individual needs, rather than recognising that nothing suits everyone and we all muddle along as best we can.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm a strong empathic parent, but teach self reliance, teamwork and resilience! But life involves rough patches, and negotiating them is not optional.

Haidt is a hero of mine. Most of my heroes are less erudite.

But life involves rough patches, and negotiating them is not optional

I love this line!

Toxic empathy

Great phrase! I love this too. This really captures the issue!