Assigned at birth: sudden realisation of meaning

[Treaclemine]

I was watching Germaine Greer and the phrase suddenly acquired a new effect on me. I've always just thought
"daft", but I suddenly realised it had an intention. As it is repeated it eliminates the woman who nourishes the child she bears. I had also been reading Greek myths. Apollo defended Orestes because mothers contribute nothing to babies, it all comes from the father. And Jason taunted Medea that she gave nothing to his sons. We could be headed, quite deliberately, back to Ancient Athens.

Well, "assigned at birth" is all about the child, the mother won't come into it just as when it used to be sane and "observed at birth" - nothing to do with the mother, and everything to do with initial baby's genital observations.

In what way do you feel it erases the mother OP?

Assigned at birth is I believe to do with babies where the gender is unclear.

Yes, I’m not really sure I understand what the OP is trying to say? 🙈

I disagree with ‘assigned at birth’ simply because I don’t agree with gender at all, sex is observed at birth

I thought assigned at birth was when it was unclear?

Because it makes it seem that life begins at birth, with all the work before unimportant.

I agree @Treaclemine But the whole ideology is about erasing biological realities and the Family (as it has existed for 1000s of Years) in my opinion.

Of course gender is not 'assigned'!?

It's determined and fixed at the point of conception.

That was my understanding of it, in newborns with ambiguous genitals the doctors would decide which way would be easier to operate to be able to give them a "normal" appearance and upbringing. It has been hijacked in recent years by people who had no such condition at birth but have decided that the sex they were born is a "birth defect" which needs correcting with surgery as an adult.

You have that back to front. Almost all babies' gender is assigned at birth.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment

"Sex assignment (sometimes known as gender assignment) is the discernment of an infant's sex at or before birth. A relative, midwife, nurse or physician inspects the external genitalia when the baby is delivered and, in more than 99.95% of births, sex is assigned without ambiguity."

Some posters are muddling sex and gender, which isn't helping this discussion.

Because it makes it seem that life begins at birth, with all the work before unimportant.

This ^^ is an interesting point, @Treaclemine. Biological sex is determined at conception.

It seems some people haven't heard this "assigned at birth" out in the wild. I've heard it on Radio 4 a few times over the past few years and it was unchallenged every single time.

It's got nothing at all to do with a baby's sex being ambiguous because if there are any questions then biological tests are done to confirm. Like actual science.

The phrase is used widely to undermine reality. If sex is "assigned" at birth, then the doctor/midwife could have made a mistake. The child can then change their sex (I mean sex not gender because that's what these people seem to think - "We thought we had a daughter, but it turns out we actually had a son all along") whenever they like, just like they change their favourite toy.

OP I think you've got a great point there about erasing the mother and I hadn't ever thought about that. A great point, but it makes me feel quite queasy. It's far worse than the old idea that the (often male) dr "delivered the baby".

The sex of a human is determined at the moment of conception by the fathers sperm when it fertilises the mothers egg. It can be easily observed at birth, except in the case of severe genetic abnormalities.
Gender on the other hand, is set of social norms and behaviours, assigned to each sex, that reflect the time and place you live in.
All the fuss is about being assigned them is bizarre, if you are not happy with your gender role then by all means change it. We are fortunate enough in the UK in 2023 you can behave and look however you like (within the constraints of the law).

My DM wanted a boy but the midwife had already used up her quota so I was assigned as a girl.
I was born at 11.30pm.
If I’d have hung on for an hour I would have been a boy.
The midwife would have started her next days quota.

3 posters going ‘I thought it was where gender was unclear?’ Have you all been living under a rock, or are you being disingenuous? Our work EDI directions keep pushing us to declare what we were ‘assigned at birth,’ as does just about every job application or NHS form I’ve had to complete in the last couple of years.

There is also the point that if gender is assigned rather than sex being observed, women become a second class men, i.e. smaller with lower strength rather than a different type of human

Trying to explain ‘assigned at birth’ can be really difficult - I’ve tried. Saying someone is ‘assigned at birth’ suggests you’re born asexual/neutral, then labelled male or female (abit like in The Hunter Games when they’re given their group). It eliminates the fact that you are already born with a sex.

But surely that's a misuse of the word 'assigned'?
Observing and recording sex is not the same as 'assigning'. The latter implies a degree of control or decision-making by the doctor or nurse that simply isn’t there in the vast majority of cases. They record what they observe. They don't assign.

In the past, if a newborn's genitalia were ambiguous the sex was truly assigned. This happened very occasionally, but with advances in medicine is no longer necessary. We can look at the baby's chromosomes to tell if they're a boy or girl now.

Gender and sex are no longer used to mean the same thing though. That’s the issue and why people can say their gender was assigned at birth (to match their sex).

I'm not a fan of gender.

Really? I don't follow.

Surely it is observed at birth whether the baby is a boy or girl.

It may need to be assigned if the genitalia are ambiguous.

Observing and recording sex is not the same as 'assigning'. The latter implies a degree of control or decision-making by the doctor or nurse that simply isn’t there in the vast majority of cases. They record what they observe. They don't assign.

Exactly. You observe whether the baby is a boy or girl! Simple really

It's not assigned, though. It's not as if the midwife has a quota. "Have we had enough blue babies this month? No? I'll assign this one boy-bits."

Sex is observed and recorded at birth (although blood tests and/or ultrasounds may have identified it earlier). It is fixed at conception. Noone is assigning anything.

Trans activists assert that all babies are "assigned" a sex at birth. But that it's mere luck if this assigned sex matches up with some vague inner notion of your gender that you discover when you're older (although apparently children as young as 2 can know that they've been assigned the wrong sex )

Genitalia and chromosomes are irrelevant.

So if you were "assigned" female at birth and you grow up to "identify as a women", the doctor or midwife got lucky that day.

Gender IS assigned at birth. I have no issue stating that. If anything it backs up my gender critical position. It's assigned, it's not inate, it's not how you feel. It's something that's imposed on you having observed your sex.

The problem is when people try to muddy the waters and make out that sex and gender are the same things.

I think one problem is that some people are using sex and gender to mean different things, while some are (still) using them to mean the same thing and are using the terms interchangeably. So conversations can get confusing...