New police guidance on non-crime hate incidents?

LavenderHillMob · 2023-03-04T08:23:09+00:00

Puff piece from Suella Braverman in todays Times. Her main theme is blasphemy and religious extremism, but she also refers to gender ideology and JKR. Third to last paragraph ^I am not happy with the way non-crime hate incidents are recorded and I will soon be announcing new guidance for police. ^ I'm not a fan, but I hope these guidelines happen soon and are effective. Suella Braverman: We do not have blasphemy laws in Great Britain https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suella-braverman-we-do-not-have-blasphemy-laws-in-great-britain-9ps9lj8r5

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2023 10:32

Thanks for this. I'd be interested in reading if you have a share token?

heathspeedwell · 04/03/2023 10:41

The new guidelines can't come soon enough.

Original poster

LavenderHillMob · 04/03/2023 10:48

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2023 10:32

Thanks for this. I'd be interested in reading if you have a share token?

Try this
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0913251a-ba0f-11ed-ba66-a35293c2b64e?shareToken=2b76a0e332c355d28fdd8e48fc684428

OP posts:

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/03/2023 10:51

Not working for me for some reason, but thank you!

SammyScrounge · 04/03/2023 11:02

Not working here either.

Original poster

LavenderHillMob · 04/03/2023 11:38

Sorry folks, let me try again. It has been a bit glitchy today (trying to sell me an Irish subscription in addition to our existing one)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0913251a-ba0f-11ed-ba66-a35293c2b64e?shareToken=aaa7a7bf83b86b8df3757c5a1d697d90

OP posts:

Boiledbeetle · 04/03/2023 12:26

Third time's a charm!

Thank you.

Boiledbeetle · 04/03/2023 12:28

We do not have blasphemy laws in Great Britain, and must not be complicit in the attempts to impose them on this country. There is no right not to be offended. There is no legal obligation to be reverent towards any religion. The lodestar of our democracy is freedom of speech. Nobody can demand respect for their belief system, even if it is a religion. People are legally entitled to reject — and to leave — any religion. There is no apostasy law in this country. The act of accusing someone of apostasy or blasphemy is effectively inciting violence upon that person.

JarByTheDoor · 04/03/2023 13:09

I'm not so sure I agree with this:

The act of accusing someone of apostasy or blasphemy is effectively inciting violence upon that person.

Inciting violence is a crime; does she want to criminalise speech which describes something as blasphemy or apostasy?

SunShineAllMine · 04/03/2023 13:13

The mother seemed like a hostage, she and her son were not protected by the police or school.

SlipperyLizard · 04/03/2023 13:38

I hate to agree with Suella Braverman, but I agree with her on this. This incident should never have happened, and the police chief should have told those who were offended where to go rather than indulging them.

The interesting thing is that gender ideology has taken its grip during a long period of Tory rule - so I’m not going to be too hopeful that Suella will actually change things, because this government seems to disagree with gender ideology but be incapable of doing anything about its grip on our schools, hospitals, prisons (albeit Raab’s recent announcement was welcome, TW should never have been in female prisons in the first place) and police forces.

SunShineAllMine · 04/03/2023 13:40

SlipperyLizard · 04/03/2023 13:38

I hate to agree with Suella Braverman, but I agree with her on this. This incident should never have happened, and the police chief should have told those who were offended where to go rather than indulging them.

The interesting thing is that gender ideology has taken its grip during a long period of Tory rule - so I’m not going to be too hopeful that Suella will actually change things, because this government seems to disagree with gender ideology but be incapable of doing anything about its grip on our schools, hospitals, prisons (albeit Raab’s recent announcement was welcome, TW should never have been in female prisons in the first place) and police forces.

Tories don't seem to have any power to enforce laws.

SunShineAllMine · 04/03/2023 13:44

It seems that voting isn't working and we are ruled by whatever psychopath rules an institution and dictates the workplace culture, how the laws are interpreted and government is negligent. Only private case law cases seem to get anywhere and even then the institutions ignore the case law.

Thelnebriati · 04/03/2023 14:38

It feels as if society is now being run by the rule of survival of the fittest. And all that gets you is the most aggressive, sociopathic people in positions of power.

LoobiJee · 04/03/2023 17:08

Boiledbeetle · 04/03/2023 12:28

We do not have blasphemy laws in Great Britain, and must not be complicit in the attempts to impose them on this country. There is no right not to be offended. There is no legal obligation to be reverent towards any religion. The lodestar of our democracy is freedom of speech. Nobody can demand respect for their belief system, even if it is a religion. People are legally entitled to reject — and to leave — any religion. There is no apostasy law in this country. The act of accusing someone of apostasy or blasphemy is effectively inciting violence upon that person.

“There is no legal obligation to be reverent towards any religion.”

That is a very important statement.

No one should be discriminated against for their religious beliefs. Or for not holding religious beliefs. But that is different from an expectation of religions being exempt from questioning, criticism, or scepticism.

nepeta · 04/03/2023 17:50

An interesting article, from someone whose politics otherwise differ from mine. Are blasphemy laws back de facto, even if not de jure?

It seems like that, though the enforcement is not equal for all religions. And I do think that we also now have secular de facto blasphemy of which JK Rowling is accused of.

Wonder what would happen if all political movements demanded similar treatment and all religions, too, from pagans onward?

The similarities of the gender identity case to this one is a pretty clear example of how the gender identity approach indeed is a religious belief system or comparable to those.

ResisterRex · 04/03/2023 19:19

There's also this:

"The education sector and police have a duty to prioritise the physical safety of children over the hurt feelings of adults. Schools answer to pupils and parents. They do not have to answer to self-appointed community activists. I will work with the Department for Education to issue new guidance spelling this out."

Is that part of the new non-crime hate incidents guidance, or separate?