I’m as GC as they come...

[Shelefttheweb]

But I am embarrassed to be associated with these GC posts....

Please continue the script 😂

Theres a thread (now deleted) mocking a person on the bias of their identity. If we are honest they would be mocked for the photo regardless of gender identity because they aren't conforming by some.

That begs a question: is doing it transphobic? Or just mocking for non-conforming to beauty ideals? I'd argue that an ugly woman who dressed badly would get the same level of abuse (or even more)?

Given who it is making this post, and her agenda, it's hard to dismiss it as just mocking for non-conforming though. And therein lies a problem in itself. Back in the day people who were punks, goths, emos would have got similar abuse. There has been a least one murder on the basis of this which has been acknowledged as motivated by hate. Its an issue that equally needs addressing.

However I also think the claims by TRAs that there's a magical essence whereby if you conform to stereotypes you can't tell someones sex. Which IS bullshit, and this example highlights it well. Arguably it's the trans women who are attractive by society's standards but still identifiable where this point is more relevant. Women CAN tell. And that's important, because it means women are getting that 'uncanny valley' feeling - which is a natural phenomena - in addition to their own learned protective behaviours as the result of male violence and intimidation. Ultimately if you are male and go around calling yourself a woman it's a problem because it's so obviously untrue and its gaslighting.

So I think the photo raises a valid point badly, but also highlights the problems of social expectations and gender stereotypes AND carries an element of transphobic.

It's not black and white. It raises a lot of questions that need addressing. It has varying layers of meaning and value - some I think are crucial and some which show deep seated issues with conformity that goes beyond the trans agenda and some which are utterly shallow. And yes from both sides.

Do I think they should have made the comment? It's ill thought out and appeals to the lowest common denominator. It's not trying to engage in a wider more nuanced debate on this, although it may lead to others doing so. It appeals to a certain section of the population who don't want those type of discussions. But we shouldnt dismiss a 'less intelligent' debate either. There's a huge section of the population who do life at the celebrity culture level but are still voters. Dismissing them as just bigoted is the mistake that many politicians have made and drove the rise of Brexit - which wasn't all a 'far right' agenda as many wish to frame it. It couldn't have gained so much traction but for issues that politicians glossed over and pretended weren't social problems and concerns. That political vacuum was the one that let Farage in, in the first place. It's the politics of unaddressed grievance.

And I'd argue that TRAs are themselves driven by the political unaddressed grievance in the same way that incels and islamic extremism is also driven.

Politicians and journalists avoiding the sensible, difficult and nuanced discussion in the middle is ultimately where the issue is. I'm not going to blame individuals for the failures of the establishment. That also doesn't mean I believe these individuals are wrong or far right either.

They are reaching groups that have been neglected for whatever reason. The mainstream and establishment would be wise to take note and think about why that situation has arisen and consider what the fuck they are going to do about it.

For example the religious section of America certainly isn't a group I agree with or align with, but I also don't think they are fundamentally evil either.

What boils my piss is everyone having to have set opinions and never think nor discuss this because of fear of offending. It's this black and white thinking that's fucked up and does everyone a disservice. It doesn't serve society as a whole. It doesn't build a consensus which everyone feels they have participated and engaged with and therefore respect.

And it's this total lack of respect that's generated by the black and white thinking that ultimately the biggest problem.

I’m as GC as they come and a real feminist to boot and I can’t stand women who sell out out other women to suck up to men but it’s obvious that all these trans kids are the result of their mothers deliberately transing them. It’s nothing to do with trans ideology being pushed by all our institutions, politicians, BBC etc. sucking up to the TRAs and it’s definitely nothing to do with social contagion amplified by TikTok and Insta. It’s Münchausen’s syndrome by proxy, pure and simple. If in doubt, blame the mother and no, I don’t have any evidence. Like I say, it’s obvious!

Women CAN tell. And that's important, because it means women are getting that 'uncanny valley' feeling - which is a natural phenomena - in addition to their own learned protective behaviours as the result of male violence and intimidation. Ultimately if you are male and go around calling yourself a woman it's a problem because it's so obviously untrue and its gaslighting.

All good points, Red, the bit I've quoted is what it boils down to for me. Also tired of being held to a higher standard than others, such as many of the people being mocked who do and say absolutely vile things, it feels like part of the coercive control.

I don't want to derail this thread but, for me, what was being mocked in that deleted thread was an idea. Whether that was the poster's intention or not I don't know.

I do think the idea (that we can't tell) deserves to be mocked. In fact I think one reason why we're in this mess (and I posted this on the thread) is arguably that we didn't mock the idea early enough or loudly enough and now it's gained traction.

I agree, Floisme.

I’m as GC as they come but some TW do pass in carefully posed and heavily filtered and airbrushed photos on twitter so we should all pretend they are women.

Yes of course, causing everyone to be non-binary and pansexual.

I myself am colandersexual. Any hole’s a goal, y’know?

I’m as GC as they come but cervix-havers fixation on genitals is creepy.

This discussion has slightly been done to death but I agree to an extent that "I do think the idea (that we can't tell) deserves to be mocked. In fact I think one reason why we're in this mess (and I posted this on the thread) is arguably that we didn't mock the idea early enough or loudly enough and now it's gained traction."

I think replace 'mock' with 'point out that it is factually incorrect' is probably more successful because the very hard-of-thinking (and there are many. Far more than you could ever imagine) pretend that it is appearances being mocked, not the idea. So yes, we have to put the work in to separate that but there really isn't much sensible discussion to be had otherwise. AND I think we have to be careful not to create another atmosphere where jeering at what people looks like in general becomes common, because that is usually used to make women feel awful about themselves or question their right to say something. (Just thinking about that senior police officer in her dress. How tf did that even become anything anyone commented on?)

"It's ill thought out and appeals to the lowest common denominator. It's not trying to engage in a wider more nuanced debate on this, although it may lead to others doing so. It appeals to a certain section of the population who don't want those type of discussions." I agree, and I think the people for whom that matters probably aren't going to change their thinking anyway.

Also, I still disagree that we know for a fact that we can always tell someone's sex, because we only can tell the ones we CAN tell! I am sure that the number of people we can't tell their sex is very very low. But I for one have encountered such a person (on TV) - I think it's more common with female people than male.

But posting stuff like this on another thread led to me getting yelled out and lied about, so frankly I can't really be arsed getting into it again, so apologies for anything you don't agree with, and as always - [disclosure for those who think someone's appearance changes the validity of their argument - my hair is a right mess and I'm wearing awful novelty socks)

All-time classic

I think laughter and jokes can sometimes cut through the crap better than any nuanced argument - as this very thread is illustrating.

Please don’t make this a TAT

You're right, let's go back to your post which deserves another outing:
I’m as GC as they come but cervix-havers fixation on genitals is creepy.

I'm as GC as they come which means I fully understand that being GC means wanting everyone to have traditional gender roles like the conservatives they - I mean, we - are.

I'm as GC as they come but I think the word paedophile is too easily mistaken for paedatricians. Therefore I think we should change the word to MAPs (Minor Attracted Persons) which is a much better description as it sounds all warm and fuzzy so then the paedophiles don't feel so stigmatized when they post their age preferences on their Twitter account. And if they are only thinking about it and not actually doing anything that's OK! Right?

I'm as GC as they come but here is this poorly written article calling us all bigots, what makes people hate us so much?

I’m as GC as they come but little girls just DO like mermaids, unicorns, and Barbies.

Don't forget "they are little divas" who all love making other girls feel bad.

Nazi-adjacent.
unalive.

Brilliant!

I'm as GC as they come, but why can't we all come together as a nation and worry about Putin invading us?

I know, gay men really need to wake up and embrace transmen and their manginas!

I'm GC as they come but I totally sympathise with grown men who want to become teenage girls and want to have pillow fights, swap beauty advice and talk about periods. I never had that either. <sad face>

I'm as GC as they come but as the birthing parent of an out and proud demisexual, pan romantic, Omni gender 12 year old who just wants to be accepted as xcey are, I am shocked and disturbed at the bigotry shown on this thread.

Seriously, I thought the bigotry of other opinions had died out with Section 28, but apparently there's lots of people (and cervix havers on a website for birthing vessels no less!!) who'd seriously stop my sweet, enthusiastic little person of ever evolving gender being able to do whatever pjey want.

I'm just so upset, what kind of world is fze going to grow up in if people still won't capitulate to bvir every demand 😪😪😪.
I've reported this thread. You need to be ashamed of yourselves. And have a word with yourselves. And educate yourselves. 😡

I'm as GC as they come, but I think some people just don't understand the importance of a happy penis.