Exam board insanity

[Rightsraptor]

Reading the DM in the library and found this:

'Now French exams set to allow gender neutral terms'. It turns out it's German and Spanish as well.

I wonder what the famously protective Academie Française thinks of this. I don't get why there are two words for the French replacements, that seems somewhat ... um ... binary. Are they saying to use 'lel' for 'elle' and 'ille' for 'il', which is gendered in itself?

I am puzzled by the idea that using gendered pronouns about objects may not be inclusive to pupils who ID as 'gender fluid'. It's not about the speaker, it's about the object. So, presumably, a 'gender fluid' person will be upset by my femaleness. To which I can only say 'tough bloody luck'.

Not sure if the bottom bit is there but it reads
'It is irresponsible for exam boards to pursue a redefinition of academic subjects in order to promote a woke ideology.'

Pearson stated the predicable inclusive garbage.

I can't see this makes any sense at all. Colour me shocked.

Native German speaker here. Nobody but nobody uses xier, not even the woke crowd - well maybe half a dozen blue-haired loons nationwide. People who think they're NB ask to have their names used on repeat instead of pronouns.

The real irony is that there's actually a vicious ongoing battle atm about "inclusive" language but it's nothing to do with pronouns it's to do with gendered nouns and moving away from using the "generic masculine" form of nouns to include everybody. So for "students", instead of just "Studenten" you'd use "Studentinnen und Studenten" (hated by the blue hairs for leaving them out), a tortured present participle (Studierende) or the latest, "Studentinnen" with the symbolizing the catgenders et al. The spoken version of that consists of inserting a glottal stop instead of the *, and conservatives are currently spitting feathers at the latter becoming more and more widespread on public radio.

Dang autocorrect on MN. The last version should be Student*innen. Apparently so bonkers not even to software gods approve of it - or maybe it's a formatting shortcut on here?

Well that's a bit complex, Grumpy Panda, and I can see it putting off the faint of heart from tackling German if it does become widespread. Which it won't.

Do I understand correctly that German NBs dispense with pronouns and ask for their name only to be used?

I'm trying to grasp that. It feels antagonistic when I've done it (frankly, it has been so but usually only done in writing by me so far) but some German youth are asking for it?

So the wheel turns.

It’s the daily mail… it’s trying to stir up anger, hate and resentment.

Reading it in the library doesn’t protect your from it bigotry

Reading it in the library doesn’t protect your from it bigotry

Ironic that in a thread about the Brits bastardising other languages, the feeble attempt to derail and shame isn't even made in plain English.

Well, quite!

So are you saying it is untrue?

As for bigotry, that is yet another word taken by the totalitarian woke who twist its meaning to mean the opposite.

It's the new inclusive English, do keep up!

I suspect the wanting to be referred to by name not pronoun may be more than a little influenced by how Japanese works. There’s a significant overlap between the blue haired NB and anime dilettante groups in the things people like to define themselves by Venn diagram.

I'm not up to date with Spanish wokeness, but in Latin America I have seen "@" used instead of the "o" or "a" to make it non gender specific. Sometimes "x" is used instead or the "@", and more recently "e" is being used.

At least you can pronounce todes in place of todos/todas.

Todes les Argentines is painful to my ear but is better than tod@s l@s Argentin@s or todxs lxs Argentinxs.

I was under the impression that Pearson are fully signed up to "Queering the Curriculum". Have a Google and fall down the rabbit hole.

Native German speaker here as well. I listen to German radio almost daily and the whole innen drives me mad.
Just yesterday, I heard and ad for a trade show on education taking place in Stuttgart. "Erzieherinnen, Lehrerinnen, Ausbildende, Studierende, Schülerinnen". Very hard to listen to.

The other "thing" now is to not say Studenten (students) any more but say "Studierende" (the studying). Completely and utterly bonkers.
I looked up a memorial site a while ago with plans to go there, they have a café and I read Sitzplätze innen (seats inside), and immediately thought "why would they have to gender seats?" before realising what they actually meant.

I have seen "xier" written, but only on Anime-Avatar'd Twitter bios, not in "the wild".
On a visit home, I have heard "they" used while in a DM drugstore in my hometown. Found it a bit odd an English word was used, but in that context, I don't think there's a true German equivalent.

Just realised that by placing the "Gender star" * the formatting was messed up.

I live in the German-speaking part of Switzerland and can confirm. With the added bonus of students at certain unis being told which "inclusive" forms to use by their faculties and some newspapers claiming that students are getting lower marks if they use the generic masculine.

Yes, stuff like "Amig@s" looks clever on paper, but how can you pronounce it? It's like "Latinx", which less than 3% of Latinos in the US actually like. Athough that doesn't stop it being imposed on them by "progressives" like my (white, born in the UK) sister, of course.

@Maerchentante

I have seen "xier" written, but only on Anime-Avatar'd Twitter bios, not in "the wild".
On a visit home, I have heard "they" used while in a DM drugstore in my hometown. Found it a bit odd an English word was used, but in that context, I don't think there's a true German equivalent.

I've actually seen an adaptation of "they" written out as "dey" once or twice. Don't think it's caught on.

I've heard "xier" used exactly once - think it was in the video about the trans "mother" who got his kid kicked out of a Kassel nursery after he - the "mum" that is - brought in rather explicit children's books and started reading them to other folks' kids. Kid's being brought up gender-neutral and there's a scene in which he asks the poor thing, all of 3 years old or so, "welche Pronomen präferierst du" (sic).

What definition of bigotry are you using, @SomePosters ? I define it as 'intolerant of the beliefs of others'.

I'm not remotely intolerant of others' beliefs, but I am incredibly intolerant of people trying to force change on unwilling participants. It smacks of colonialism, don't you think?

I am a native Spanish speaker and have no idea what the hell they’re on about.

As a pp mentioned, sometimes the @ symbol replaces the “a” or “o”, but only in written Spanish. The only thing that is in more common use for inclusive language is not to use the masculine as including both sexes, but to use “masculine and feminine”, so saying “todos y todas”, although it does sound very political speech, and most people still stick to masculine as including both sexes in everyday speech.

Trying to use gender neutral in Latin languages will make people’s heads explode as it’s not only pronouns but every adjective that would also have to be altered 🤯🤯

Oh dear, that poor kid.

I asked my then 3 year old nephew "Who are you and what are you?" to which he responded "I'm X and I'm a tractor", depending on the mood he could also be a dino. Now a year later you'd almost certainly get "Fireman" or "Policeman".

And that was on a good day, mostly the question "Who are you?" would get the response "Me". If I'd asked him what pronouns he preferred I would have received very, very blank stares or the ever omnipresent Swabian "Hä?"

@GrumpyPanda been to Kassel, lovely city!
I'm glad I'm not learning languages at school anymore

Sorry Rightsraptor, overlooked your reply earlier. Yes, the name on repeat - or rather, no pronouns - is often explicitly being asked for. Not just by teens, also by middle aged Mt? - actually more by the middle aged crowd it seems. Maybe be because they're uncomfortable with neo-pronouns. Or maybe because an actual transphobe would probably resort to using "it" which is undeniably vile.

I do get the irony, I've remarked on it once or twice on previous threads here!
Here's an example of a very #be kind text written entirely without using a third person pronoun: netzpolitik.org/2021/aber-du-siehst-fuer-mich-wie-ein-mann-aus/