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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hags Review

38 replies

Igneococcus · 24/02/2023 07:15

Janice Turner review of Victoria Smith's "Hags" in the Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c13e6b5c-b38b-11ed-bc64-f71663a88018?shareToken=fc421d24f71e0d2817ef2cf21c66049a

OP posts:
nepeta · 24/02/2023 17:52

Sounds wonderful! I am ordering the book, too.

The loathing of older women was there in earlier reincarnations of feminism, at least from the second wave on, and I have many examples of young intersectional feminists saying ageist things about women online without being questioned for that by their contemporaries.

And the link to the rewriting of feminist history is also something I have witnessed recently:

What the second wave achieved is ignored, its faults and flaws are the only part of interest. Yet the people in the second wave were complex individuals, and what that wave achieved and failed to achieve are both equally worthy of inspection.

Still, to me the most fascinating observation is how many lefty men eagerly start Karening all assertive women (and not just white, middle-aged women) when they can do this while pretending to speak for the truly marginalised groups. Just yesterday I saw one tweet about older women soon dying out in any case so their views are irrelevant.

That 'older women' is a demographic group, just as 'older men', which keeps getting refilled is not something they notice.

So yes, one important underlying reason for all this is the view of women's value on the basis of fu**ability. Another may be generational rebellion, but this doesn't seem to affect male-focused social justice movements much, and I'd expect to see it in those, too, if the reason was just in generational questions.

LK1972 · 24/02/2023 18:46

Thanks for the share token OP, and to consistently excellent Janice Turner for the review, I've now pre-ordered Smile

Boiledbeetle · 24/02/2023 20:34

Lately, witch-hunters have targeted Mumsnet for the outrage of allowing chat about sex-based rights as well as IVF and nappy rash.

Oh another mention of the mumsnet terven witches!

Fullyhuman · 03/03/2023 16:59

Victoria, if you’re reading this, thank you, and: brava! I’m listening to you reading your brilliant book on audible, and loving it.

Truthlikeness · 03/03/2023 19:07

Really looking forward to reading this

QueenHippolyta · 03/03/2023 19:46

Lesbians used to be fabulous outspoken young crones as we didn't give a sh*t what men thought or wanted but then around 2005 I noticed the gay 20somethings abandoning Lesbian for queer and I worried what this rejecting our history meant.

It meant the end of intergenerational female Lesbian solidarity as young 'queer' women looked to the male-dominated queer community for values and support.

the queer movement has truly been destructive for women. And I loathe it.

nepeta · 03/03/2023 23:44

QueenHippolyta · 03/03/2023 19:46

Lesbians used to be fabulous outspoken young crones as we didn't give a sh*t what men thought or wanted but then around 2005 I noticed the gay 20somethings abandoning Lesbian for queer and I worried what this rejecting our history meant.

It meant the end of intergenerational female Lesbian solidarity as young 'queer' women looked to the male-dominated queer community for values and support.

the queer movement has truly been destructive for women. And I loathe it.

Your last sentence, so true. The queer movement is what patriarchy would have created if it could have. And perhaps it did.

I came here after reading the IWD thread where someone posted a tweet by a trans activist who argued that 'cis' women are not oppressed and can't have even one single day for themselves. Afghanistan and Iran would disagree with that, but it's truly astonishing that someone can have zero awareness of what it actually is like to be female in this world.

fruitstick · 11/03/2023 10:44

I've just started this. Am marking my place to return.

Truthlikeness · 11/03/2023 20:40

Read the first few pages so far and already want to buy copies for all the women I know.

nepeta · 13/03/2023 16:00

I have just read the part about Mumsnet in the book!

So delicious, that is.

She talks about the 'corrupting' (said as a joke) influence that older intelligent women have on the new mums coming here, and the bigotry which assumes that giving birth makes a woman lose her ability to think, so some men are outraged that thinking is happening here.

ArabellaScott · 13/03/2023 16:03
Shocked Oh No GIF by Yêu Lu

Corrupting? Oh, my.

ArabellaScott · 24/03/2023 22:06

Ooh, brilliant. Thanks!

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