Lesbian not allowed to have a say in LGBT representative

[TaylorLangrish]

Hi,

I've never posted here, but I'm confused and angry with my Student Union.

They are currently in the process of electing new student representatives for the academic year 2023-24. To vote for certain positions (BAME rep, Women's rep, etc.) you must confirm that you are a member of that group. After confirming I am a lesbian I was told I was not eligible to vote for the LGBT rep because (and quoting the website) "You are not a member of this group - Membership of 'Self Defining Groups - Non-Binary'".

I genuinely feel sick, and I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. I am a lesbian, I know what homophobic harassment can feel like and how little protection there is already and yet I'm not allowed to have a say in who represents me in my own student union.

A part of me feels like I should say something to someone but at the same time I'm terrified of rocking the boat and what speaking out would mean for my own safety.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated <3

Firstly get some more information. Is that reply automated from some kind of online form? If so, contact the people running the election to point out that there is a technical error in the voting system and that the vote needs to be paused until it's fixed.

If the reply is from a human being, then respond asking for more information because they have made an error. You are a lesbian, not non-binary so they must have made an error. Force them to explicitly state in an email why they are excluding you if they are doing it deliberately.

I would clarify with them that they are honestly banning a lesbian from voting for the LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL and TRANS officer and ask them to explain their reasons in writing. I say this because there is no legal reason for doing so and having to write it down may make someone change their mind and if not you have the evidence to sue or use the threat of sueing to make them change there illegal policy. Good luck

@RoseslnTheHospital Thank you so much for your reply.

When I actually started to vote for the candidates, it did give me the option to vote for the LGBT rep, despite being told I was not eligible. I have found the support email address for the SU and I will raise the fact that I got a message telling me I could not vote and how as a lesbian student I was made to feel by that technical error and the general erasure of lesbians in LGBT discussions. (Recently the SU was decorated with pride flags for LGBT History Month and the non-binary flag was included even though the lesbian flag wasn't).

I'm scared of repercussions but equally, I am tired of being made to feel like my experience as a lesbian woman isn't valid, and that the SU can hang up flags without actually listening to the students affected

How did you have to identify yourself as either L, G, B or T beforehand? Did you have to register to vote in this particular election and then "opt in" to one of the available characteristics? Did you have to do the same for your ethnic group, disability status or religion?

@Hoardasurass Thank you for your reply. You may have seen that I think it was just a technical error, but the feeling I had when I thought I wouldn't be able to vote was horrible.

I am going to email and ask why I was told I couldn't vote, even though I was allowed to and emphasise the importance for me (a lesbian survivor of SA) of knowing my student's union will take my concerns seriously.

@RoseslnTheHospital Yes, there was a long list of characteristics that we had to opt in or out of

These included:
Ethnicity
Disabilities
Trans experiencing trans misogyny
Trans Man
Trans Woman
LGBTQIA+
Woman

The best case scenario, and fairly likely, is that this is a technical error in the set up of all those options. Stupidity and error is usually more likely than deliberate malicious acts.

However, it is important that the SU knows about the error and the impact of the confusion and upset of being told you're not eligible to vote has had. I would also ask them to check if anyone else received a message in error and whether this has had an impact on the voting results.

When you contact them, be specific about what happened and the sequence of events, then explain the impact this had on you personally. Then detail the concerns about this affecting other people and the integrity of the voting process. Finally list what you expect them to do and what feedback you're expecting from them as a result.

As an aside, this is stupid system for deciding who is allowed to vote in which category. There's no vetting system for checking if people actually do have one of these characteristics or not. Did the website even stop you from selecting multiple (all?) available options?

For anyone who is wondering, this is the email I have drafted to send to the SU

To whom it may concern,
I am a lesbian student at the University of - . When trying to cast my votes in the SU elections today and selecting my inclusion factors I selected LGBT student but when I confirmed I was told that I was not eligible to vote for the LGBT representative because I didn't meet the criteria, specifically I hadn't selected that I was non-binary.

When I went to cast my votes I saw that LGBT+ representative was on my list of candidates, but this was not before I experienced severe anxiety symptoms due to fearing I wasn't going to be allowed to vote.

As a lesbian woman who is a sexual assault survivor, thinking that my Student Union was not going to let me voice who I wanted to represent me was terrifying and distressing. I want to be able to have confidence in my SU and know that the issues I have will be taken seriously.

I know that this was a simple technical error, but it did cause significant distress to me, and I feel like it would be worth investigating to avoid this happening to other students.

I'm not sure if this is enough to send, but it feels important that I say it

@RoseslnTheHospital There is no verification system, as far as I know. I don't know what if any access the SU has to student records (whether they would be able to see a student's picture and confirm their identity). I didn't try selecting all options, but I don't believe I would've been prevented from lying about being eligible to vote for a BAME rep / Black student rep.

I will add this to my email and ask if they have had any other complaints and I will ask them to make it clear that students only need to be eligible in one letter of LGBT to be eligible to vote for the LGBT candidate and that telling a lesbian she can't vote for the LGBT rep, even as an error, isn't a good look.

Thank you so so much for your help, I really appreciate it.

OP, my local university engineered things in such as way as to shut down the SU feminist group which included lesbians and I wonder if that's what's happening here? I would suspect that they are deliberately trying to exclude lesbians from LGB and TQ+ networks and groups because they are dedicated to the trans cause and want to repel lesbians, who are often GC.

Persist, as others have recommended. We'll support you here. I know it's a big ask when you're studying and you don't want the hassle of having to take this shit on, but this is your way of making the world a better place for lesbians.

@pattihews

Thank you for the support, I really appreciate that. It does feel like increasingly the SU is more focused on trans rights. Of the two candidates for women's officer, there was a section in her manifesto about transphobia at the university.

I have adapted my email to express my concerns (I'll post an update on it in a separate message) but I really hope to get across that male violence is something I don't feel like my university will take seriously, especially not if it happens to a lesbian. I'm also going to remind them that they have lesbian students who need representation. Last year I think they may have had separate categories for each letter of the acronym (unless I'm mixing it up with the LGBT society). I'm wondering if it would be worth asking why they are not doing that this year

Updated Email

To whom it may concern,
I am a lesbian student at the University of -. When trying to cast my votes in the SU elections today and selecting my inclusion factors I selected LGBT student but when I confirmed I was told that I was not eligible to vote for the LGBT representative because I didn't meet the criteria, specifically I hadn't selected that I was non-binary.

When I went to cast my votes I saw that LGBT+ representative was on my list of candidates, but this was not before I experienced severe anxiety symptoms due to fearing I wasn't going to be allowed to vote.

As a lesbian woman who is a sexual assault survivor, thinking that my Student Union was not going to let me voice who I wanted to represent me was terrifying and distressing. I want to be able to have confidence in my SU and know that the issues I have will be taken seriously and the moment I thought that confidence was gone was truly horrible. In that moment I felt like I wouldn't be able to put my trust in the SU if I was to experience homophobic harassment on campus, as the voting had deemed me "Not LGBT enough".
The error felt like I was going to be silenced, I hope I don't have to explain why that's not good.

I know that this was a simple technical error, but it did cause significant distress to me, and I feel like it would be worth investigating to avoid this happening to other students if it has not already happened to them. I hope you understand why this is an issue for me, and why it needs to be addressed. Lesbian students need to know their voices will be heard and that they can trust the SU if they experience homophobic harassment or male violence on campus.

Thank you so much for your time,

Slightly off the question you originally asked, OP, but this system doesn’t seem very democratic.

Do the same rules apply to who can stand for each of the available positions? Because, although I can understand why someone with a very ‘liberal’ POV might feel it increased representation, what it would seem to do is restrict participation for certain groups of students and open it up massively for others.

Presumably a transwoman with a BAME heritage could stand for any of the positions, (including the women’s officer, if the SU has one)? Whereas a heterosexual white man or woman is going to be limited to a much smaller range of offices?

And if every student has to pay subs to get SU membership (and in any case, an element of the course fees they pay will contribute indirectly to the Union), then why shouldn’t they have an equal vote for every position they’re paying to subsidise?

Fair enough, restrict who can stand for BAME officer to BAME candidates, Disabled officer to people with a disability etc, but I don’t understand why VOTING for the winner needs to be restricted in the same way. Ultimately all the officers elected will have an impact on all of the policies the Union proposes and adopts - not just the ones that are particular to their office title.

I think that's fine. It will be interesting to see what kind of response you get.

@PaterPower

I'm not sure as I have never stood in an election, but I assume there are restrictions on who can stand. Although some of the roles are paid these are limited to president, welfare, activities, education and inclusion. The rest are unpaid so I am not sure how much they are subsidised.

Trans experiencing trans misogyny

My eyes rolled so much at this I can see behind me.
Ridiculous that they even want to appropriate misogyny.
More pretend oppression.

Well done for emailing them.

I'm too cynical now to think it was a genuine error.
We all know the LGBT rep will be someone with a penis and a special identity. The only lesbian representation you'll get is a man claiming he is one.

That's a good email. OP.

Man is not listed. Why not, if Woman is?

I'm sorry to hear of your woes, @TaylorLangrish and I see that there is some good advice here. I fear that you may be in for a long, hard haul, judging by some of the well publicised cases of late.

I wish you all the best, please keep us updated.

If you are in the UK, sexual orientation is a protected characteristic. They can't legally ban you from voting because you are a lesbian. They are breaking equality law, and as you are directly affected you are able to escalate and bring a case.

I suggest you contact the EHRC and let them know where this is happening.
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/sexual-orientation-discrimination
''If you think you might have been treated unfairly and want further advice, you can contact the Equality Advisory and Support Service.''
Phone: 0808 800 0082

@Thelnebriati @SinnerBoy

Thank you both for your support. I will wait to see what response I get from the SU before I take any further steps, but last year during election season when all of the candidates for women's officer were talking about how TWAW (despite the sex they are campaigning to represent being a legally protected characteristic) my mum suggested someone should take them to court.

I'm quite scared of the repercussions I could face as despite not mentioning trans people at all in my email I know that won't necessarily stop people from accusing me of bigotry. I have also naturally had to attach my name to the complaint I made to the SU, which means this can and will be traced back to me

I would really object to having declare my "membership" of any specific minority group before voting. This is discrimatory against all those people who are actually lesbian, trans, etc, but don't want to out themselves via an "anon" website (if they can't get the IT right to permit votes, how are they doing with protecting the info they receive as per the DPA?)

I fully imagine that not everyone who is LGBT at the uni is out of the closet.

And since when were women a minority group??!!

TaylorLangrish · Today 13:41

I have also naturally had to attach my name to the complaint I made to the SU, which means this can and will be traced back to me

I must say that surely, as a condition of GDPR, they have to keep your name confidential? It would be a serious breach of law, if they were to give your name out as a complainant.

Do they have a free legal service, because it may be a good idea to get some advice and something recorded, regarding your fears.

@SinnerBoy You're right, it would be, I guess I'm just scared that now that I have sent the email it's out of my control what happens to it, which is very anxiety-inducing.

I will have a look at the advice section and see if there is anything about legal advice, just as a precaution because I've realised I will probably have no support from people who know me personally if this gets out.

I have also contacted an academic, who isn't in my department but is a GC lesbian expressing my fears and I'm hoping she might have some advice

Just to say that it is great that you are challenging what happened. And sorry that it impacted on you negatively because of your personal experiences.

Yes, please do keep us uptodate. It begining to feel like FWR should just start cataloguing all the really strange things that are going on in universities.

For instance it is really strange that the list OP has given us example of included Trans Man, Trans women but also LGBTQI+. Either trans are included in the grouping or they should spell out each of them ie Lesbian, Gay etc..

Not expecting OP to answer that but sometimes it seems that maybe some young people going to Unversity having really ever had to think things through.

They are just keen to be seen to be doing the right thing, whatever that is at the time.