Feeling confused…

[GilmoreGirl58]

I’ve name changed for this and I’ll be honest it’s my first time posting on this board.

I’m finding myself in a very confused state at the moment. I’ve always thought of myself as quite understanding and progressive. Always championed trans woman and found them to be extremely brave and admirable to change their entire lives, entire persons to be what they believe they are.

However, I’m really struggling with a few things I’ve witnessed recently- one being the case of Isla Bryson (Adam Graham) being held in a woman’s prison- which boggles the mind completely.

I’ve seen multiple videos this week alone on trans women advertising (for want of a better word) tampons. Videos of trans woman saying that the term breast feeding should be changed to chest feeding. It feels like we, as biological woman, are being pushed out and almost demeaned.

I read a comment that said along the lines of “I’m happy to make room at the table for a trans woman, but please don’t take my seat away from me at the same time” and I thought that summed it up pretty well.

Why aren’t we sticking together? As far as I thought, we’d always been pretty accepting of trans woman and now it feels like we’re slowly being knocked down at every turn.

Apologies if I sound naive, I guess I’m new to a lot of the goings on with all this stuff but it’s hit pretty hard this past week.

Who do you think should be sticking together OP? Women? Or women and males with a gender identity? Did you really think males would have the same goals in improving womens lives as women do? I used to be like you until someone told me to educate myself so I did. And once you see the misogyny and sexism, you can’t unsee it. I would suggest, sit back, strap in, read these boards and be prepared to be shocked.

Welcome aboard! Once you see it you can't un-see it.

Wait until you get into the issues of sport (look up Lea Thomas) and the huge numbers of teenage girls being given un-reversible drugs.

We all started out championing "our girls" as I used to call them.

It's a rabbit hole...

Welcome.

You're not the only one OP. Isla Bryson and the Scottish debacle peaked so many people.

(Peaked = Terf slang for the straw that broke the camel's back)

So now you've peaked, what's next for you? Stay a while. What I found when I arrived here was a small number of bigots with views I can't accept, massively outnumbered by intelligent women with logical, empathetic and often fierce views, having in-depth and incredibly well-informed debate on a subject that is truly important to women's wellbeing.

I think your confusion arises from not having previously appreciated the breadth of the trans umbrella.

Yes some of the transwomen who we didn't previously mind making room for are quite lovely people, not wanting to take anything that isn't freely given and perfectly aware that there might be circumstances where their desires need to take a back seat. However, the umbrella is so very wide that it includes some really unpleasant and misogynistic people. The most vocal and demanding aren't going to allow women to reserve any rights or freedoms that can't be overruled for the comfort, convenience or gratification of someone male, and this creates the perfect cover for those with no gender identity issues at all to spot opportunities to camouflage under the pink and blue banner in order to find opportunities to abuse.

when you start to question these things you are forced to start to analyse who exactly is a trans woman.

The "diagnosis" is based on sexist stereotyping of women.

Then they say they don't need diagnosis, they "know who they are. And they are women."

So need equal rights. Access to women's spaces.

Pure patriarchy under a new name.

Wait until you discover the percentage that retain their penis, and then all the philias that fall under the transwoman/ trans umbrella name.

You won't stay confused for long, because pure anger will kick in soon, once you realise the extent of what's going on.

We are way past sticking together.

The majority in here are at the twaM stage and we are sick of the takeover of our words, our spaces, our jobs, our sports, our sexual preferences ... , and no longer wish to work with them to help them. They have pushed and pushed and pushed and now they are on their own and a lot off us are all out of kindness and fucks. As a woman I'm putting women front and centre. The men can put the transwoman men front and centre if they want.

I learnt a lot from reading some writing by "rational" trans identifying males who were the most critical of the whole thing than anyone here at that time. (Eg Miranda Yardley.)

body dysmorphia exists; this is now treated with intensive and long lasting therapy. Gender dysphoria is the same condition (the only evidence shown on brain scans.)

But obviously the trans umbrella includes the condition agp too, and then you have a whole bucket of worms that follows...

Break it down for me? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Essential reading for newbies.

Also Trans by Helen Joyce.

Of course when you start to analyse the situation for children it's all a million times worse so there's no time for fence sitting.

Time to think by Hannah Barnes (out yesterday I think? My copy should be coming today!) will fill in the gaps there

I felt like you OP. In my experience, generally people want to be kind and inclusive, but the reality is that trans women are (and always will be) biological men. As such, women's spaces, women's issues, women's very language is threatened by this ideology.

It took a while for me to realise that trans women don't care about women at all. Look at what's happening in sports - Lia Thomas is a good example of this. I'd recommend looking up Posie Parker on YouTube, she's working very hard to protect women and girls.

I find that increasingly all liberal progressive causes that I have traditionally supported are being overtaken by an influential self appointed elite who not only want people to support the causes but do it their way. Trans rights is just the most extreme example and Stonewall is the biggest problem.

Nearly all of us were where you are. We all wanted to be progressive and kind. We nearly all thought of transwomen as people who had been dealt a shitty hand, who deserved our empathy and support. But eventually, something happened to make us notice that something wasn't quite right. For me it was the Get The L Out protest at London Pride in 2018. I didn't understand what was going on, so I read up on what had happened and was appalled that lesbians were being coerced into accepting transwomen as lesbians and shamed for rejecting them.

It sent me down a rabbit hole where I realised that all of the sensible precautions you assume we would be taking with this issue are not happening. Children are given life altering drugs without due care. The results of top and bottom surgeries are genuinely horrific. Males are allowed dominant women's sport, including contact and combat sports, where women have been severely injured. Male rapists are housed with women prisoners, and in the US there are now multiple documented cases of women being raped in prison. A British woman was raped by a transwoman in an NHS hospital and the hospital insisted it didn't happen. Though thankfully she was eventually vindicated.

When we try to raise our concerns, we are branded hateful bigots. It's really hard to get your head around because it's really, really, really unbelievable. It feels genuinely insane. Sometimes I need to sit down and check if this is actually really happening or if I'm having some sort of crazy fever dream.

There is a lot of deliberate confusion around the topic so that people can't see the wood for the trees. The word transphobia piggy backs onto the word homophobia. But they are not the same. Sexual orientation slots happily into society and why should anybody mind what that is? (unless religious).

Transgenderism says that some people are unhappy about the body they are born in and the way the body is perceived by others. Far enough, many people feel that, but the majority have to accept and learn to love the body they are born in. It is understandable that some people feel a "phobia" or a sense of unease around those who lack self acceptance - many people do that because there IS a sense of unease - the word transphobia intends to stigmatise that sense of unease.

Then you get to what you should do about it. My view is live and let live, people present however they like. I have to be courteous and to treat everyone with equal opportunity and respect. However, being "kind" by ceding places and spaces allocated to women and girls is not kind to women and girls. I am a women, why would I promote rights of a man over those of my own sex? I am a mother, why would I promote lying to children? I like to think there is such a thing as truth - why would I deliberately allow myself to lie? Those are my lines in the sand.

Those who disagree will say transwomen are not men. However, we all know from observing little kids from very young without their social filter that humans recognise sex at a glance. I am remembering the days on the bus with kids saying "why is that man doing that mum?" We should not be teaching them confusion in this area.

Welcome welcome OP. There are some great posters on these boards with a wealth of knowledge.

My own view, probably with the majority here, is that of course TW should be free to dress as they wish, not discriminated against at work, not subjected to violence. BUT the same applies to women who should be allowed single sex spaces, lesbians should be allowed to refuse to sleep with whoever they choose, and troubled teenagers should not be medically sterilised.

Trans by Helen Joyce is great and I'm looking forward to reading the Hannah Barnes book.

Welcome OP,

Men who think they are women and women have different interests, I don't think we can stick together sadly.

These boards are a great resource. It's hard, I felt very guilty thinking these things for a year, now considerably less so.

Thank you all for the replies. It’s good to know I’m not alone with where I am/how I’m feeling on this topic.
Had a google of Lia Thomas and can’t believe some of the things I read. I’ll be honest, AGP wasn’t even something I was aware of until this morning.

I will be spending my day reading through the links some of you have provided and am interested in the books mentioned.

I think it worries me to speak my thoughts about these issues to just anyone as I’ve seen all too often people being labelled transphobic when they do. I’m not transphobic at all, I just don’t think some of the things happening are fair on women and everything we have to endure, it just feels like everything about us is being cast aside. I have a young son and it worries me the world he may have to grow up in. I can’t imagine how parents of young girls are feeling.

I’ll be a frequent reader of this board now.

I felt similar to you OP but as others have said once you see and start questioning you can’t unsee

These boards can be hilarious too.

OP If you haven't already please sign the petition to try to strengthen the Equality Act. There are links to it all over the place. Also, please share it, if you're comfortable doing that, even if it's only with your nearest and dearest.

Found one!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2?page=22&reply=124134420

We're not allowed to link directly to petitions, but the above link takes you to the petition board and you can click through from there.