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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kate Forbes standing for First Minister

21 replies

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2023 12:44

Third MSP to stand.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64702474

2/3 of these candidates so far know what a woman is.

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ArabellaScott · 20/02/2023 12:44

Ooh, and Angus Robertson rules himself out!

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NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 13:09

I hope they don't pick her. I'm rooting for Humza. Dropping the GRA reform makes no difference to how awful the SNP inherently is. Humza is the worst of the 3.

Ash Regan is wittering on about "de facto referendums"

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2023 13:11

You may get your wish, Natasha! I've no idea what's going to happen. My gut instinct is Ash Regan will be the most sensible and capable of them all.

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NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 13:12

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2023 12:44

Third MSP to stand.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64702474

2/3 of these candidates so far know what a woman is.

Although one of them doesn't know how the Barnett Formula works, despite it being in her portfolio and the other appears to have no understanding at all of how democracy works, given her calls for a "de facto referendum".

2bazookas · 20/02/2023 13:53

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2023 12:44

Third MSP to stand.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64702474

2/3 of these candidates so far know what a woman is.

I don't want First Minister who is fundamentally opposed to abortion or gay marriage.

The Dark Ages are over, Kate. Byeee

HagoftheNorth · 20/02/2023 14:04

Is that Kate who was too busy to log on to vote on the GRR then……personal political ambition trumps the safety of women and girls in Scotland I suppose

Sotiredofallthisnonsense · 20/02/2023 16:41

Yep. Courage and integrity desperately needed to restore faith in the SNP. Ash Regan for FM.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 20/02/2023 16:55

None of them are 'standing for First Minister'. They are standing in the SNP leadership election. The Scottish Parliament nominates the First Minister.

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2023 17:02

Well, maybe let the BBC know. 'Kate Forbes announces bid to become first minister'

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NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 17:17

HagoftheNorth · 20/02/2023 14:04

Is that Kate who was too busy to log on to vote on the GRR then……personal political ambition trumps the safety of women and girls in Scotland I suppose

Yes that Kate.

Mrsjayy · 20/02/2023 17:41

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2023 12:44

Third MSP to stand.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64702474

2/3 of these candidates so far know what a woman is.

I was hoping she would stand, fingers crossed.

SerenaVanDerWoodsenHumphrey · 20/02/2023 18:01

NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 17:17

Yes that Kate.

Was she not on maternity leave?

I keep seeing people criticise this candidate for being absent at this particular vote, but never the justification for condemning her, or any considered analysis.

There's an old argument that elected officials should resign rather than taking leave. Rights to maternity leave are recently established at Westminster and still tenuous. Holyrood has been more progressive on the issue; while we haven't seen a case of an FM needing to take leave, we have had ministers and party leaders do so - for example, Ruth Davidson during her stint as Conservative (and Opposition) Leader at Holyrood. She fully absented herself and left her job responsibilities in the hands of her deputy.

In the corporate world, it's still a challenge to ensure that maternity leave (and parental, medical, and family leaves, although those are less directly tied to sex) is properly deployed, supported, and respected. One of the hardest things is setting the expectation among colleagues and even supervisors that the person on leave is entitled to their full leave and DOES NOT have work responsibilites during that time. Even in places with good legal provisions attitudes remain traditional and there's popular blowback.

This can't be a sex-neutral discussion: not only are the cultural expectations different for women vs men with newborn children, the biological differences are indisputable. Eroding maternity rights - even if we call them parental rights or similar - systemically and disproportionally disadvantages women. If a Scottish Government Minister shouldn't be allowed the full advantage of maternity leave, that's a discussion to be had (again), not a given.

Mrsjayy · 20/02/2023 18:10

She has cut her maternity leave short,

MarshaMelrose · 20/02/2023 18:13

Was she not on maternity leave?

She's still on maternity leave but she came out of it for this because she thought it was important. Clearly the GRR wasn't important enough to even type her ID, password and do a couple of clicks.

Following your words, she shouldn't have her maternity leave disrupted at all. Therefore she shouldn't have cut it short for this.

NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 18:50

Mrsjayy · 20/02/2023 18:10

She has cut her maternity leave short,

And? She was on maternity leave - not locked up in Outer Mongolia with no internet.

She could easily have logged in and voted remotely. Except she'd have had to resign as a minister.

NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 18:51

Sorry meant to reply to SerenaVanDerWoodsenHumphrey

PronounssheRa · 20/02/2023 18:53

2bazookas · 20/02/2023 13:53

I don't want First Minister who is fundamentally opposed to abortion or gay marriage.

The Dark Ages are over, Kate. Byeee

What's humzas religious position on these 2 issues?

Either both can be scrutinised based on their faith or neither.

NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 18:56

SerenaVanDerWoodsenHumphrey · 20/02/2023 18:01

Was she not on maternity leave?

I keep seeing people criticise this candidate for being absent at this particular vote, but never the justification for condemning her, or any considered analysis.

There's an old argument that elected officials should resign rather than taking leave. Rights to maternity leave are recently established at Westminster and still tenuous. Holyrood has been more progressive on the issue; while we haven't seen a case of an FM needing to take leave, we have had ministers and party leaders do so - for example, Ruth Davidson during her stint as Conservative (and Opposition) Leader at Holyrood. She fully absented herself and left her job responsibilities in the hands of her deputy.

In the corporate world, it's still a challenge to ensure that maternity leave (and parental, medical, and family leaves, although those are less directly tied to sex) is properly deployed, supported, and respected. One of the hardest things is setting the expectation among colleagues and even supervisors that the person on leave is entitled to their full leave and DOES NOT have work responsibilites during that time. Even in places with good legal provisions attitudes remain traditional and there's popular blowback.

This can't be a sex-neutral discussion: not only are the cultural expectations different for women vs men with newborn children, the biological differences are indisputable. Eroding maternity rights - even if we call them parental rights or similar - systemically and disproportionally disadvantages women. If a Scottish Government Minister shouldn't be allowed the full advantage of maternity leave, that's a discussion to be had (again), not a given.

Oh please, my heart bleeds.

Forbes claims she couldn't support this Bill, she could easily have logged in and voted against it. Didn't even have to leave her house.

NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 19:03

PronounssheRa · 20/02/2023 18:53

What's humzas religious position on these 2 issues?

Either both can be scrutinised based on their faith or neither.

The difference is, Humza has, as far as I know kept it to himself. I doubt very much that Humza is looking to curb abortion rights and same sex marriage, even if he personally disapproved. I have no issue about what his his personal views are. I notice that other than 1 positive vote to make abortion available in NI Rishi Sunak abstains on these issues. I don't have any issue with that.

I doubt Forbes thinks she has any chance of changing the current position either, but why she thinks she needs to tell us her views isn't clear.

PronounssheRa · 20/02/2023 19:11

NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 19:03

The difference is, Humza has, as far as I know kept it to himself. I doubt very much that Humza is looking to curb abortion rights and same sex marriage, even if he personally disapproved. I have no issue about what his his personal views are. I notice that other than 1 positive vote to make abortion available in NI Rishi Sunak abstains on these issues. I don't have any issue with that.

I doubt Forbes thinks she has any chance of changing the current position either, but why she thinks she needs to tell us her views isn't clear.

I'll defer to joanna cherry twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1627223288232525825

I wish people would stop attacking Kate Forbes for her religious faith. She’s never shown any inclination to roll back rights as a matter of govt policy.I don’t recall any fuss about Ian Blackford’s membership of the same church. It is rank #misogyny

NatashaDancing · 20/02/2023 19:26

Forbes is a hypocrite. She could have kept true to her faith and voted against the GRR Bill.

Why does Forbes think we need to know about her faith- especially as she can apparently set it aside when it suits her.

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