India announces separate category for transgender taxpayers

[ArabellaScott]

Interesting to see how the idea of a 'third gender' is approached in India, with a very different cultural and social context.

'Transgender applicants in India can now obtain Permanent Account Number (PAN) as an independent category. Previously, there were only two gender categories available, male and female. An official was quoted in an interview that the amendments to current tax policies were meant to widen representation.'

www.justicenews.co.in/india-announces-separate-category-for-transgender-tax-payers/

Sorry OP, it took me a while to realise it doesn’t refer to India Willoughby taking it upon them self to make up a new tax category

Countries that have quite strict ideals on what men and women should be tend to have "third genders". The Hirja are pretty much effeminate men who society deems not masculine enough to be real men, so that get related to a different category.

It would be a mistake to attribute Western ideas around gender identity and gender dysmorphia to these people.

But unsurprisingly as the West develops stricter stereotypes around gender the consequences are alternative genders as people struggle to fit into such strict stereotypes (which many trans groups promote).

This isn't what a 'hijra' is. They are either hermaphrodites or men who have undergone voluntary castration who don't want to be seen as or referred to as men. They are proud of their community (which is quite established) and their identity - and do not see themselves as male gendered. They do not see themselves as women either (though they dress and speak as women). The third gender exists to allow them this choice. It isn't a govt or society mandated designation.

Incidentally they've always existed in India as a group and any negative connotations only came about because the conservative British persecuted them during their rule. And this became the way of life. We are now heading back to a place of more acceptance and inclusion for them and this is what this policy represents.

New Scottish tax forms:

Male
Female
Rapist

Third gender categories are never a sign of progress; they always exist as a product of homophobia and sexism. They are a societal coping mechanism for dealing with gays and lesbians and people who fail to meet cultural sexual stereotypes. Seeing third genders as a sign that the past was more progressive about gender is completely ahistorical.

Whatever else they are, they are not hermaphrodites! No human being can produce both sperm and ova - all of us are either male or female, even those patients with DSDs (disorders of sexual development).

Third gender categories have been common in very patriarchal societies so that the (male) individuals in that category (often gay men, rarely women) do not disrupt the rigid hierarchy of men over women. The existence of third genders in some cultures is perfectly compatible with extreme subjugation of women, for instance, so it's not the kind of thing it is now being painted by activists.

Hijra and issues around Hijra in India does NOT equal to the trans issue we see in the west. It would be quite misplaced to draw comparisons and parallels.

(I should possibly clarify any foundations for my comment - Born and bred in India for 22 years and settled in the UK for 17 years).

eyope actually no. A small minority are intersex or people with DSD. A large number are 'camp' gay. Regarding the castration - a large % retain their male tackle and the initiation ceremony can be purely symbolic. There was some research into numbers, I'll see if I can find it.

There's a study from Pakistan pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22204249/ which has this -

^Out of 400 hijras, penis and testes were absent in only three hijras (0.8%) Among the remaining 397 hijras, 98.3% were circumcised and 1.7% were non-circumcised. Inguinal Lymphadenopathy was the most common finding. The study dispels the myth that Hijras in Pakistan have ambiguous genitalia, are hermaphrodites or have undergone removal of male sexual organs.^

Agree with this comment. They are viewed differently and not as there in the west.

Here's another research into sexual practice in Mumbai (if you have access to the doc, else the abstract is visible) - link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-016-0886-0

Seriously, it's all a myth - most are gay men in a deeply homophobic society. (Indian born and raised here too before someone has a go at me)

Thanks. I found this story because an Indian transwoman involved in campaigning for the change in law now lives in the UK, and works in 'transgender health'. So there certainly seem to be some connections and overlap/crossover.

Does this mean there are now hijra and transwomen as two distinct and different groups in India?

I may be wrong but my understanding is that the difference between transgender community in India and here is, In india they are fighting for recognition as third gender and to have equal rights as male and female gender.

Hindu mythology speaks about third gender, gods manifesting as different genders etc., so it is easier for everyone to accept that there is a third gender and they have to be treated equal to others. Colonialism with strict Victorian moral code did make people change people's behaviour.

In the past, anyone who identified as third gender or Hirja, went and joined a community , they lived together, had certain roles in the society, had their own rituals and special god.

But there is a recognition now ,
that this way of life just leaves them in poverty and open to exploitation. Rightfully, they want to have equal opportunity in education, jobs etc.,

rpl.hds.harvard.edu/religion-context/case-studies/gender/third-gender-and-hijras

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539026/

Indian passports used to have U for transgender but that has been changed to Female now.

The Hirja are pretty much effeminate men who society deems not masculine enough to be real men, so that get related to a different category.

And male homosexuality is illegal in India, isn't it? Or if not illegal, not accepted easily in public etc.

Indian origin person here. India/hinduism is excellent at finding spaces for niche communities. Thieves, prostitutes, sexual minorities like the hijra (there are other names like aravanis) all evolve their own rationale for existence and build their communities, very much on the fringes of wider society. They have their patron gods, temples and find stories from the huge panaorama of hindu mythology to justify their existence to a deeply divided and yes, homophobic and sexist society. The trans communities play their roles at weddings, the birth of babies and mostly as sex workers but the members of these communities rarely maintain their connections with their actual biological families - the shame is too great.
Like others said above, these communities are not at all analogous to modern western concepts of gays nor trans women. "A small minority are intersex or people with DSD. A large number are 'camp' gay." This is largely correct. They were invariably male. These communities were the only spaces where same sex relationships could be openly expressed and even solemnised. Memebers of these communities did not find acceptance beyond the confines of those roles they were allowed - none could become teachers for example.

Now of course, there are also tiny numbers of trans people living out of these communities, especially in the cities. These people are more likely to hold ordinary jobs - even become politicians - and seek more social acceptance.

Hindu mythology speaks about third gender, gods manifesting as different genders etc., so it is easier for everyone to accept that there is a third gender and they have to be treated equal to others.

Hindu mythology speaks of many fantastical and fascinating things. I am not sure that it ever spoke of anything beyond male and female or specified a third gender - you would have to offer evidence of this. The gods assume different forms due to the exigencies of the storytelling. Let me give you a common narrative. Person A performs a harsh penance and gains deadly supernatural power from a deity, say Shiva. Person A typically asks for immortality and invincibility. Think Macbeth. He cannot be killed by a man or woman, indoors or outdoors, at night or in the daytime. A becomes a dreadful supervillain and oppresses the people who beg the deity for deliverance from the menace. So Shiva becomes androgynous and kills the villain at dusk at the threshold of a dwelling. Shiva has no trans identity beyond this. Victorian colonialists would have shuddered at half male and half female gods without deigning to understand the context. I daresay that many woke trans activists now are gleefully writing articles for LGBT publications like Pink News about Hinduism's 23 trans deities without the same context. Some things never change.

The India visa has male, female and transgender. When there the only Hijra that I have come across have been threatening, abusive and unpleasant , forcing money out of people.

Thanks, mirax. So the idea of 'transgender' people is a recent import, but there is.a bit of crossover with traditional communities of hijra, etc?

I find it really interesting how transgender ideas are applied globally- every time with massively different history, culture and legal contexts.

Section 377a of the Indian Penal Code a colonial era law outlawing male on male sex was repealed in 2018. I'd say that traditional hinduism has little acceptance for homosexuality beyond abstinence and a kind of religious ascetism, being a sanyasi. But I'd venture that Hindusim and Buddhism are free of a deepseated hatred for homosexuality and fairly flexible in modern times, compared to other religions.

Does it matter i.e. does it affect tax paid?

As far as I can tell it doesn't affect the tax rate or anything.

Also Indian born and raised (Mumbai) - and worked with the sex workers of kamathipura (lots of the Hijra community operate here too, so there's a lot of third gender rights activists) before moving to the UK. A large number of hijras wanted and actively campaigned to get third gender status. They don't want to be considered male or female. They are proud of being third gender.

Conservative corners of India (like conservative parts) of any country have patriarchal and homophobe beliefs, sure. But being a Hijra has nothing to do with the patriarchy - they existed before Mughal and British rule when large swathes of India were far more progressive towards sexuality of all genders including the third.

Incidentally India has a separate bill for trans rights which was initiated back in 2014. Third gender is different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransgenderPersonss(ProtectionoffRights)Act,,_2019

No, it was decriminalised in 2018.

Incidentally it wasn't illegal in India until British rule passed a law criminalising it.

It's far more accepted and public than people think.

The patriarchy has been around for millennia. It predates any form of empire. As for illegality of homosexuality, something doesn't have to be illegal for it to be socially unacceptable or punishable.