Wild Wanderers Women Only - Official inclusively statement

[Yayyayitsaholiholiday]

Is anyone on the above Facebook page?

It seems one person is jumping up and down about inclusivity and so the admin have created a post about how it’s a women’s group that welcomes all women, as well as anyone non-binary or who identifies as a woman.

But still definitely not men! Unless they say they’re not a man, in which case they can join.

But not if they’re a gay man, a bisexual man or an asexual man.
100%, absolutely not those types of man. Unless they say they’re not a man, which then makes them a woman………….

If anyone here could add some balance. Which some brave women (myself included) are doing……..

The admin are tolerating questions asked by those who are ‘confused’ about what a woman is, if it’s not a person with a vagina, but are blocking anyone saying penis-havers are men!!

I'm aware of this group. If you go on their walks, you can't guarantee that it'll be women turning up, unfortunately. I don't think that's safe at all.

This.

It’s a make entitlement & hate movement: they absolutely cannot stand for women to have any privacy.

I was a member of a female bikers group on FB. The motorbiking world is male dominated and extremely misogynistic. It was good to speak to fellow women bikers, it had a completely different vibe to the other male dominated groups.
Note that I am using the past tense hear. Inevitably a TW popped up and was fawned over by a lot of the members. The few that spoke against it were shouted down and I think some were banned. I left in the end.

Here not hear

I couldn't be arsed to read all that, but near the beginning the author says:

I clarified, “but, weren’t you assigned male at birth? And don’t you identify as a male, and fully embrace being a male — including all the implied gender roles that society assigns you?”

Which neatly covers most of the problems I have with being called cis.

No, I was not assigned female at birth - my femaleness was observed.

No, I don't "fully embrace... the implied gender roles". I've been trying to escape them for over thirty years now.

Therefore, I am not cis.

The bit where the author asks 'but weren't you assigned make at birth and don't you embrace all the gender roles society imposes on you' ...

... Shows you exactly what's so infuriating and offensive about being called cis.

Presenting an article like that to a group of feminists to try to persuade them that it's fine to be called cis is just utterly laughable.

I’ve recently left a FB group for women with ADHD. Women present differently to men with ADHD, get a later dx, have to navigate their symptoms in a society not geared to give women any allowances. The group now has “inclusive” tacked on the end of its name. No longer a women’s group, men have already been admitted. They now dominate the posts.

I think we sadly have come to realise that anything women-only is a red flag for these people and they are coming for them all. Sorry about the loss of your group. We are under attack it seems. All the women only spaces I grew up loving have been taken over. And yes, other women are complicit in allowing that to happen.

So it's now a mixed sex group. That really changes things. I don't really get why they want to be called a women's group when it's mixed sex. Just change the name.

I run a women's social group for women only, single sex. I set the group up because I was in a mixed sex social group and the men tended to dominate (and were often flirty and inappropriate. I'm married, I'm not interested in other men). The women who clucked around the men and deferred to them wound me up too.

My group has been going 5 years. I closed membership requests just before covid. I'd like to be open to new members but I just can't risk opening up membership the way things are. Some men (and women sadly) have no understanding of why women may need single sex spaces, and have no concerns about taking that resource from us.

I'm sorry your group has gone down the men's rights path (or up the men's rights mountain!). I take it transmen are not welcome to join?

Absolutely.

Women who want to hang out in mixed sex groups - all tickety boo - so long as those groups are clearly labelled as such. What isn't fine it labelling a group 'women only' but then including males.

If a group is going to include males they need to spell that out to women, because there are many women, who have many various reasons (that they are not required to disclose or discuss) to have sought out a 'women-only' group.

To try and hoodwink or gaslight women into 'accepting' males as women under false pretences is absolutely not on.

And while believers in the faith may say that they perceive a difference between a male who identifies as a TQ+ person, and any other male, not everyone believes .

Which makes it not an 'inclusive' group at all. It makes it an exclusionary women's group with a trades description problem. And a problem with discrimination and prejudice against other beliefs.

On the right side? Women are people born with some, most or all of the biology needed to conceive, carry in utero, give birth to and lactate for human offspring. Some women are indeed TRAs, mainly third wave feminists and those who want to be seen as progressive. At some point many of them reach 'peak trans' and realise that people born with a penis are not and can never be women. As to looking at the Facebook page, no-one seems to be advocating a pile-on, but asking 'what is a woman, then?' (or, indeed, 'what is a man?) seems reasonable if the group and its activities are supposed to be women-centred and women joining in expect the event to be male (person born with a penis) free as far as adults go (presume mothers with small boys are allowed to join the all-female hols etc.).

Does Sex Matters (or anyone else) provide a toolkit on the law around setting up a single-sex group?

Anyone running a single-sex group is going to need to explain repeatedly that what they are doing is lawful (where it is a proportionate means of achieving a lawful aim) and permitted by the EHRC, and they may also have to explain to social media companies etc. that banning a single-sex group is likely to be unlawful discrimination.

That's a lot of work for a small walking group etc. to take on - so a toolkit would be useful.

@Yayyayitsaholiholiday, I was going to post this. Is this the post by LW? Who also referred to women as non men?

@Sorcière, I’m in that group and was really pissed off to see a woman’s group now has inclusive stuck on the end.

They should take the word 'women' out of the title now its mixed sex.

@Mrsdragonfly
It is so disappointing but not surprising. I’m old enough to see through the be kind be inclusive bullshit for what it is but my DD also has ADHD and I despair for her generation having no place of their own.

^^This. Have you actually put any independent thought into this Chuff?