A reminder that Labour has a long history of not supporting women only services and the legacy is hurting women still

[IwantToRetire]

Much of the dialogue on FWR is the attack on women only services by trans ideology.

However long before this became dominant, women's services were being closed or amalgamated into generic services by funders / local councils who did not think women warrented special support.

Another tactic much favoured by Blairites was giving housing associations(*) the opportunity to expand their base of income (rents) by taking over women's refuges.

This news story illustrates how completely inappropriate that was and still is.

There are calls for all women's refuges to ban access by men following the abuse of a woman in Shropshire at the hands of a male worker.

After fleeing a violent ex-partner, the 21-year-old sought help from the Shropshire Domestic Violence service.

She was subject to repeated serious sexual assaults by Stephen Russell, who arranged accommodation and claimed to carry out maintenance for the refuge, which at the time was owned and managed by the Shropshire Housing Group.

Russell had full access to all parts of the refuge, including the woman's bedroom and her personal file.

^planetradio.co.uk/free/local/news/calls-for-womens-safe-spaces-to-be-male-free/^

There is a real danger that at the end of March councils will be looking at ways to make savings as they will have to cut budgets and women's services will be vulnerable. They have never been valued by politicians(^) and it is something that maybe we should all be keeping an eye out for, particularly if your local authority puts proposed cuts out to consultation, as even to the public at large women will come lower in priority to other vulnerable groups. Or to the expansion of the lowest form of support exempted / unregulated housing used by some councils committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/43346/html/

(*) I never understood why Blair thought Housing Associations were sufficienlty "community based" to be allowed to expand their work not only in running refuges, but also special needs housing, support etc.. It was partly this political decision that led to HAs becoming bloated corporate organisations that ceased to be a source of affordable housing. Although on that score Labour could have reversed the right to buy, or at least allowed Councils to use the money from the sale of housing stock in to create new council housing.

(^) It wasn't until Boris Johnson as Mayor of London gave money to fund 4 rape crisis centres in London, that rape crisis centres were recognised as being a service that authorities should support. And it wasn't until this year that there was funding for a National Rape Crisis Helpline, as the one run from south London Rape Crisis relied on funding from a trust. Such a political embarrassment that someone like Boris Johnson was more willing to support women than Labour ever had done.

Did he aye?

Boris Johnson was more willing to support women than Labour ever had done

And I'll just remind you that the Tory party have a long (13 years now) history of totally fucking up this country to the point where everything is broken.

If the Tories had actually spent the last decade doing things to protect and safeguard women and children, I would be more likely to lend them my support. They have done nothing of the sort. I am completely bewildered as to how so many women seem to believe the Tories are our friends, and the protectors of our children. They are demonstrably no such thing.

Under the Tories, the DfE has utterly failed to provide science/evidence-based frameworks for PSHE provision and ensure schools are held accountable for teaching children about gender ideology. Kids are still being taught the “wrong body” nonsense, because there is no system in place to prevent that, just some guidance that plenty of schools choose to ignore.

Our safety is such a low priority that women are being raped daily and murdered weekly; we even now have girls being raped on school grounds because the current government is so dire on protection for women and children. We are prey for predators, and nobody in our Tory government is doing anything to stop that. Indeed, the last decade, when they have led government, has seen the worst erosion of our rights in my lifetime.

Male sex offenders have been put into women’s prisons under the Tories. The Tory-run Home Office is failing not only to sort out rotten policing but to meaningfully integrate people (men) from deeply misogynistic societies, who may themselves be fleeing persecution but still have no right to persecute women and girls here. It’s the Tories who have overseen the last decade of dismantling our hard-won protections. Some individual Tories may talk a good talk about restoring single-sex spaces and sports, etc. - credit of course to Kemi Badenoch, Miriam Cates, and some peers for continuing to talk.

But talk is all that has happened. None of the government has actually done anything meaningful. It’s all talk and no walk. Legislation still has loopholes, policy is still vague and waffly or, where it isn’t, isn’t enforced - no public sector organisations are being penalised for not following the little guidance that has been produced. There is no government support for ordinary people to bring court action against service providers, employers, etc. who discriminate against women on the basis of sex or gender beliefs, hence all the crowdfunded cases. If the Tories meant what they’ve said, they have had a massive majority for a few years now and could have easily done something about it. But they haven’t bothered because they don’t really care.

On top of all that, wider social policy - or the lack of it - under the Tory government has led to increases in poverty for children in single-parent households, most of which are headed up by single mothers. The CMS system is not fit for purpose, further entrenching poverty for those families. Universal Credit has fundamental flaws for women with abusive partners. Health and care services are harder and harder to access, and the burden of family care for poor health falls on women.

I could go on but it’s 5am and just writing this little post has been depressing enough.

If the Tories had done anything meaningful for us in recent years, then I would be more open to hearing about how dreadful Labour are. But it’s now 2023, and it couldn’t be clearer how little the Tories really care about women. I do not know whether Labour really would be worse for us at this stage. At least they’re doing some serious groundwork on sensible childcare strategies and reforms to ensure people have access to healthcare. Those things alone would be better for a great many women and children than what they’re getting now.

I couldn't agree more. I think it absolutely reeks of narrow world view and privilege when women state that they will vote for the Tories over Laboir due to what they percieve as Keir's stance on self id.

At a very basic level, which is how I view this, I'd rather have action on climate change, the NHS, and refuges which may admit transwomen than a burning planet, no NHS, and no refuges, with zero transwomen admitted.

I know this is oversimplifying but it's the basic choice in my mind. It's a shitty shitty choice but tories cutting everything to the bone is worse than labour allowing tw access to resources.

And yes, ALL the last 12 years has happened under Tory rule, so let's not pretend they've done nothing to get us to where we are now

At a very basic level, which is how I view this, I'd rather have action on climate change, the NHS, and refuges which may admit transwomen than a burning planet, no NHS, and no refuges, with zero transwomen admitted.
I know this is oversimplifying

Well there is quite a lot the Conservatives are doing for climate change, Teresa May brought in the 2030 deadline for phasing out petrol and diesel cars. Wind farms have proliferated. The NHS is going to be a very long job to sort out.

When Labour bring in Self ID will be very hard or impossible to roll back.
I wouldn't vote Tory but I am not voting Labour because of this.

I know the narrative that we're all Tory voters is a popular one but does the fact that this thread has managed 5 replies in 15 hours (admittedly on a busy news day) not tell you anything at all?

No disrespect to Tory supporters on here. I've regularly had cordial exchanges with them, and of course some of them are hoping to make capital out of Labour's craven stupidity - in their shoes I would do exactly the same. But I'm sure they would agree that the vast majority of regular posters on this board are centre / left. Some of have us given up on their party, some are hanging on trying to fight from the inside and some - like me - watch and wait like lovelorn teenagers for the slightest sign from Starmer.

Even women like Joan Smith, loyal to Labour for decades, can barely disguise her contempt for the party leadership. That's how bad things are, and I am so very tired of posters rocking up to lecture about the record of the current government as if it's somehow news to us. You want to do something about it? Then go and ask Labour / the Greens /Lib Dems why they are so intent on throwing away the votes of long standing supporters.

I listened to this discussion between Sheila Jefferys and Linda Belos earlier today and I have to agree with both of them. Feminism needs to be its own independent movement and pragmatism is required if we want to improve conditions for women. The self ID insanity has crystallised for me that I do not owe loyalty to any particular party and will vote according to whoever I think is dealing with the most pressing issues facing women, this is not selfish, we are 50% of the population.

I can hardly believe that Labour has embraced identity politics, it's a neo liberal project which prioritises individual empowerment and is supported by those privileged enough to be ignorant of the reality that some people do not have sufficient choices to be individually empowered. What happened to class analysis and why is any kind of collectivism currently so unfashionable?

Well done for derailing the thread.

I put in as an historical note, because it is absolutely shocking, that at no time in the past did members of the Labour Party support the Rape Crisis movement. And in fact when I happened to be at a meeting where a well known and still senior Labour women MP asked what they were going to do about Rape Crisis having their funding cut, she just said she hadn't heard about it and who were they any way.

But what I was showing is how completely useless Labour has been on women's rights.

No where did I say I was a tory or would vote tory.

But never underestimate those who are unable to start their own threads on an issue important to them (I cant think of a thread that was headed why women shouldn't vote tory) to come along and hijack someone elses.

So just for once, get off your back side, stop using your keyboard, and find out what is going to happen in your area to any local women's services.

And of course your overload of whataboutery in fact shows that it goes to the quick of lefties, that rather than hold their hands up and say the left / Labour should do better and we are sticking in there to make it happen, you are dumb enough to think that one we need to be educated, and two that being lectured by contributors who clearly dont care about cuts to women's services will somehow win us round to thinking, yes lets stop worry our silly little heads about women.

Posting on FWR is becoming increasingly pointless because nobody wants to discuss anything. They just want to tub thump their own special view.

But the other thing that in a way I find is more troubling, that there are lots of posts on FWR about how badly women are treated, how are rights are under threat, etc., etc., but when it comes to actually doing something nobody can be bothered.

I think the lesson here is that all those more than happy to come on FWR and ponitificate actually cant be bothered to do anything IRL.

But well done for spectacularly missing the point. I shall certainly look out for your posts in future to know that I dont need to waste time reading them, as they will just be irrelevant.

Are there in fact any real supporters of women's rights and services who would like to discuss practical ways of helping women's services surive the cuts that local authorities will have to make?

She was subject to repeated serious sexual assaults by Stephen Russell, who arranged accommodation and claimed to carry out maintenance for the refuge, which at the time was owned and managed by the Shropshire Housing Group.

What the actual fuck? I thought that men were excluded from working at rape and DV shelters?

And I had no idea that many were run by HAs, which are large businesses, which make an awful lot of money for their senior staff members.

There is a tendency to assume that outside of gender ideology, the LP has historically been more likely to explicitly support women's concerns. It's a point well worth examining. If actually they haven't been, it suggests that the assumption that the LP will overall try to do more for women is questionable.

I think that is somewhat different than the question of whether things like a fiscal policy tend to have more of a negative effect on women. Both parties have different views on what kinds of fiscal policies are going to be best overall, and anyone who disagrees with a particular approach is going to believe people are disadvantaged by it. And some more so than others. I don't think that's particularly indicative of either party not caring about women (or any other group.) It's indicative of a different approach to economics. Possibly still a good reason not to vote for said party, but it doesn't tell us much about their views on women.

I used to be a LP member. I will NEVER vote Labour again. Never. Our rights, dignity and safety mean nothing to them and will be easily tossed away if they get in to power. The leader of the LP cannot admit that women are adult human females, the bullying of Rosie Duffield, Lammy's comment that we are 'rights hoarding dinosaurs', Lisa Nandy happy to put blokes in to women's prisons...it goes on and on and on.

I do laugh at posts like this.

Literally hundreds of thousands of left wing employees managing all these services but no, none of them are responsible for the services, it's all entirely the fault of a few hundred politicians. Not labour politicians of course.

The looney left are part and of these left wing dominated services. What you are saying is that left wing employees can't manage to behave themselves and Tory politicians have to sort them out.

This is not the ringing endorsement of the left you think it is.

I have been fortunate not to really require a lot of services over the years

But really?

As a young mum I was fortunate to have my eldest when we still has Sure Start centres. That made a big difference to me as a mum away from family who didn't have a local support network.

They were Labour. What's happened to them?

Apologies op if I seemed to be suggesting your political allegiances. I have no idea what they are and nor does it matter. I was exasperated to see yet more 6th form level arguments from posters who appear to think the mummies need lessons in how politics works. But I probably contributed to the detail.

That's an awful story about Shropshire DV Services but I'm not surprised there's a reluctance to engage with it. It's not easy facing up to how alone we are politically - I find it as hard as the next person.

So, OP, what is your opinion on Labour's progress in Wales? 23 years of unbroken Labour rule. Our schools are returning the worst results in the UK. West Wales is the poorest area in Northern Europe, despite EU support.

Well said, Crikey!

I will not vote Labour again either. I am from a family who have had members in (LP) political positions and have all always voted Labour but for many of us, Labour are not a party now we can get behind.

Though I cannot say who I’d vote for instead.

CrikeyO, you said:
Under the Tories, the DfE has utterly failed to provide science/evidence-based frameworks for PSHE provision and ensure schools are held accountable for teaching children about gender ideology. Kids are still being taught the “wrong body” nonsense, because there is no system in place to prevent that, just some guidance that plenty of schools choose to ignore.

What do you have to say about Wales, where the Labour Party that's been in power for 23 years rolled out a genderist indoctrination programme in schools last year and is doubling down? Do you really think that there's no danger of a new Westminster Labour government following Wales' example?

Funnily enough, I am public sector staff, in a part of the public sector responsible for substantial service delivery as well as many other things, and the idea that I and my management colleagues are “left wing” is laughable. As is the idea that I would intend any sort of “ringing endorsement of the left” Some of our other non-restricted colleagues are lefty in their private lives, as is their democratic right; but in our workplace at least we are all able to take a moderate approach to discussing and incorporating changes. The Nolan Principles are, thankfully, taken seriously in my workplace. We are a balanced and a broad group, and any topical discussions appropriate for work are good-natured - or at least end in “agree to disagree”.

In any case, at work we must abide by policies and guidance determined by central government - that’s literally the purpose of central government as far as running the country is concerned. It is in the areas where central government is either not setting clear guidance, developing good law (and legislating to close any absurd loopholes such as exist due to the the GRA) or not ensuring accountability, that we see any failures can have real adverse impacts for women and children. Government is supposed to govern. That is its purpose. If the politicians we have in government are unable to do that effectively, then it is not unreasonable for us to begin to believe they may not be fit for the positions they currently occupy.

FYI I have always been, apart from one GE, a Conservative voter, though I am not able to be an active member of any party due to the nature of my work. However, I think that 2019 was probably the last time for me (and it seems so long ago now!) until the Conservative Party has a reckoning of its own and gets back to solid principles of integrity and good governance. That’s why I responded with my own perspective - regarding what was my preferred party and how even I recognise that it’s failed to do anything meaningful for us. It is fascinating to me that posters here have immediately decided I must be left wing, based on nothing more than my critique of the current government. I am not, and I believe we should all be prepared to criticise failures attributable to our own ‘side’.

In my view, the current Conservative Party has utterly lost sight of many of the things that matter to ordinary people. And for all the reasons I listed above, it’s sadly - tragically, in fact, for those vulnerable women and children at the sharp end - shown itself to be completely incapable of governing in a way that protects them. Talking the talk but not walking the walk is emblematic of the party now being led by the nose by a political class that exists to serve itself.

I still believe there are some absolutely excellent Conservative politicians - measured, thoughtful, insightful, generous of spirit, and dedicated to public service - but at present they are not the ones driving party strategy, national government, policy development, or any of the vital things we need from our country’s leaders. The Conservative women’s groups are pretty good too. (But I must point out that there are also some ‘mad lefty’ types in the Conservative Party - for example, check out the person in charge of the influential Tory Reform Group and you’ll see that internal party trans activism isn’t limited to the Labour Party!)

The thread was about Labour not being friends to women. Much to my frustration, and viewing the last decade through an objective lens, I have no choice but to conclude that the current crop of Conservatives have not been friends to women. And I happen to think that is relevant to a discussion about Labour not being friends to women - given that they are the alternative - and this is a discussion board. In recent months I have observed the deepening of what I feel is a fairly bizarre and reactionary left/right schism between women who, whatever their political stance, all have serious and well-founded concerns about our own rights and those of other women, as well as children. Being wilfully blind to failures of our political classes because their politics happen to align with our own positions is foolish, and we need to recommit to critiquing politicians of all parties about their failures to protect women and children.

Again, the Conservatives have spent the last few years governing with a very large majority, but have chosen to do nothing with that majority that will deliver any tangible benefit for women’s rights.

I do not treat my own politics like a fundamentalist religion, as is the modern trend; I am open to changing my viewpoints based on evidence, and I have done so. I have come round to the idea that some of Labour’s key plans and policies would be far, far more friendly to women and our children (particularly those in lower-income households) than what we have at present - and what we have had for the last decade. Polling has been pretty consistent for some time now about voter intent at the next GE, and it is vanishingly unlikely we will have another Conservative government. Although just half a decade ago (or even just eighteen months ago, in fact!) I would not have believed I would hold this view, I now think a Labour government may well be a largely positive thing for the country on a number of levels.

Unlike most here, I am in some ways quietly reassured by Starmer’s prevarication about gender. For now, he still has to keep on board the actual mad identity-driven left faction of his own party, in a very similar way to which Rishi Sunak is in the unenviable position of keeping on board the conflicting factions of the Conservative Party regarding other issues. I don’t have direct experience of Labour politics myself, but take on board the frustrations of Labour women with the fence-sitting and prevarications of their party leadership. I expect I would be disappointed too, if I had always been Labour.

As I get older, the more I reflect that politics seems like a very strange way to actually run a country.

I asked you about Wales, partly devolved for the last 23 years. Now a genderist state with future generations being indoctrinated with gender ideology from nursery onwards. Please explain what's so great about Welsh Labour.

I do not disagree that this is a huge worry. It worries me too. There are a couple of strands to the response here. Firstly the process of accountability - or the lack of it - at present, there is no clear or reliable mechanism for parents to demand DfE hold schools to account on this issue. And the Education Select Committee (another shout out to Miriam Cates here, who has been excellent in the past on the Committee!) has as yet been unable to change that. Secondly the only reason it’s possible for schools to bring in these absurd ideas and teach them as fact to our children is because legislation is relatively poor, and has not evolved and kept up with the push of trans ideology and other non-evidence-based theory. Our legislature shouldn’t be lagging so miserably behind contemporary issues, and with a majority that was eighty seats in the Commons, we should have been insisting on amendments to existing legislation or bills introducing new duties. That did not happen. This state of affairs is an enormous pity and does all of us a disservice.

I am afraid I cannot comply with your request to “explain what’s so great about Welsh Labour”, since I am neither Welsh nor Labour; I am English and generally Conservative.

The Welsh government is in charge of devolved matters, and if pushing gender ideology in schools is a devolved matter then I am afraid there is not much Westminster can do to prevent that - at least until the Welsh Assembly decide they want to try their luck the same way Holyrood did! I suppose I can only be glad that I am not raising my children in Wales, and deeply concerned for all the children in Wales being failed by the adults responsible for them.

But this is Labour, the Labour Party you want us to vote for. Welsh Labour and English Labour are connected. Who is to say that the Labour Party in England won't adopt the Welsh model when they get into power?

In a way parties like Welsh Labour almost act as a control example.

The CP has not been great on gender ideology. They initially didn't ask enough questions, were too slow to turn the bus around, and now they are paying for that because the inertia to change in sectors like education, or where they are meant to have a more hands off relationship, is really significant.

But when you look at Scotland or Wales, or Canada or NZ, what you see is that comparatively they have done well. As crazy as it seems, apart from countries with governments that are really a bit dodgy, most have done worse and are still in thrall to GI, with no end in sight. Places like Canada have already changed their laws in ways that may prove impossible to undo for a generation or more.