Article about Murray Blackburn Mackenzie in the Times

[Igneococcus]

‘Human beings can’t change sex. We’re not clownfish, it’s fixed at birth’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a0f7850a-a98f-11ed-9c9e-78cbfe4237a1?shareToken=b4c53ef4d7711319ccc52675af63c18a

Thank you Lisa, Kath and Lucy.

Fascinating. I am probably one of the only women who post in this part of Mumsnet and Twitter who hadn’t heard of them.

Very good but I would like the interviewer to consider why “ men on the inclusive bus” can’t give space to trans identifying men rather than “women on the inclusive bus” giving space to trans identifying men ? Why is it ALWAYS that way round?

We're not supposed to ask that Sally, lest the answer expose some truths about this movement....

After Mackenzie told her boss she was contributing to an academic paper on problems with gender identification and the census, she was placed under investigation. Eventually she had a conversation with one of her managers in an attempt to clear the air. “She said to me, ‘Lisa, I think what you need to do is reflect on your values’.” Mackenzie resigned.

Blackburn says all three have encountered professional problems since they became vocal on gender. “We’ve all been blacklisted, blocked, insulted, defamed, by people who not that long ago thought on other subjects we were great,” she says. To make up lost income they have supported their work with crowdfunding that has raised £45,000 over three years.

It's absolutely shocking that Mackenzie felt compelled to resign; surely she has a good case to sue for constructive dismissal, in the light of the Maya Forstater ruling? I hope so.

Yes - this aspect is rarely considered!

Excellent article

That is a good article.

And I loved seeing Simon Fanshawe quoted there as well.

Weasel words from the RCN, as I would expect. And £45,000 over three years between three people is peanuts. Maybe time for some gardening again.

The journalist conflated sex & gender too, when he talks of 'legal gender'.

Sex is the most basic and profound difference between humans so, as you say @SallyLockheart, the whites moving up on the bus is hardly apt. Let men budge up.

To be fair, the legislation conflates sex and gender, and needs to be clarified.

‘Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).’

Except for all the exceptions (any time sex is actually relevant), but feel free to ignore those if you want.

Its legislation as written by Lewis Carroll.

Great article. Good to see them being given the credit for all their achievements.

Because of transphobia - strangely this never seems to get called out. Ian Anderson, new deputy chairman of the Conservatives said he wouldn't want to follow Eddie Izzard into a toilet. That's transphobic. Jordan Grey sang on Radio 4 about how women should let him in female toilets because he just wants to pee and it would be wise because if he goes into male toilets he'd probably give our boyfriends 'bjs'. That seems to me to be inciting transphobia. Men rarely get called out for actual transphobia, however women ( and men) get called out as transphobic for objecting to men in women's toilets. Where is the logic in that?!

This.

They are fantastic.

I thought they were a whole law firm not jsut 3 people 😮
id like to see journos saying I really must ask these provocative questions to some people on the other side of the debate here!

They do a fantastic job on as PP said, peanuts.

Not all heroes wear capes.

They have done an amazing job, at some personal cost - well done to them all.

"Out there in the world, I can’t control what people say about themselves, how they describe themselves. I want them to live lives of dignity, free from harassment and violence and so on, as I would for anybody. But at the end of the day, the thing that interests us is about the legal category of woman and what you do if you open that up to a subset of men, people who were born male.”

Sums up what I believe but in better words.

Plus, the legal category of women exists as there is sound evidence that males and females have different crime patterns.

There is no evidence that transwomen fit into the crime pattern of females so legally they should not be considered women.

Yes, their output is fantastic. They do so much thorough research and write so many reports. I am fairly well read in this area and I still learned loads from them.

@Wellies54 you wrote:
"Ian Anderson, new deputy chairman of the Conservatives"
Did you mean Ian Anderson, new chair of Stonewall? ( interviewed by Nick Robinson on R4 this afternoon, BTW)
The tories have a new deputy chair - 30p Lee.
I don't know which of them made the comment about EI.

I bought The Times today to add this article to my scrapbook but I can't find it, very odd. Anyone else have a scrapbook of clippings? Feels very 1980s but I want a record for my children to see How Mad Things Got. Assuming the the pendulum does swing back.

They’re properly smart and have made a difference. Great to see them getting a write up

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst Oops yes, I meant Lee!

This might be a stupid question, but does the print version have a Scotland section in the rest UK? I @Timefortea4 The article is in the Scotland section.

Thanks for the clarification, Wellies. That fits.

I just want to fast forward maybe 10 years - and watch all the movies.
So many wonderful wonderful strong women - all so different but so spectacular in their own ways.