Trans Changing Room issue at mid Wales school

[fromorbit]

Ruth Hill reports on Twitter "I have been approached by parents from a local high school (In Mid Wales). They have received multiple letters about children in their child's class transitioning since the return after Covid.

Parents have asked the school if male bodied teens are now changing with the teenage girls for PE and this has been confirmed to be the case. Consequently if the parents object, their daughters are removed from PE and "exempted".

More details through link:
twitter.com/Tantrumfly/status/1623619845215465472

So if girls object to being watched undress they lose rights to PE lessons. What!

This is before the Welsh LGBT gov action plan gets implemented.

There is a wide spread issue with sexual harassment in Welsh schools going unaddressed as well.:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57428624

The parents should go to the media. Cover ups of this kind of thing only lead to more trouble we saw what happened in America.

That has to be illegal — depriving girls from access to PE if they refuse to undress in front of male pupils? It's clear sex discrimination: it favours the male children and penalises the female children.

Is this something Safe Schools Alliance or Sex Matters can help with?

I would take it to WEN: I think they're gender lackeys but it might shake them up a bit.
wenwales.org.uk

There's a Wales branch of Women's Rights Network:
www.womensrights.network
They might be able to advise.

The problem with going to the media here is that 99% of publications and TV etc are hand-in-glove with our trans-crazy government.

This has to go to court, surely?

There is a recent thread about an EAT ruling on toilets, it’s an employee/workplace one, but I cannot see how they could justify a ruling for employed women that doesn’t also apply to secondary aged girls at school.

Wow. As if teenage girls needed another hurdle to overcome in order to keep playing sports.

Not only are the girls losing their right to those lessons, we're seeing again that females who will not validate males by undressing their bodies in front of them are excluded from those activities regardless of the need and beneficiality of those activities for their mental and physical health and wellbeing. The impact on them is disregarded: the only thing that matters is the honouring of the preferences and choices of the male involved.

Just like the women who can no longer swim, or use gyms.

A lot of the print media will publish stuff on this matter especially in last few years. Obviously the Mail, Sun, Express, but also the more respectable Times and Telegraph.

The BBC can do good things too look at their coverage of the Tavistock.

Even The Guardian will publish critical stuff sometimes.

We are not doing too badly in the UK compared to America where the media blackout is deep. However the local Welsh media is pretty awful I agree. The nationals are better.

I am hoping this might turn into a scandal that derails the dodgy Wales LGBT action plan as seen in other threads.

So angry about this. Would someone cleverer than me please explain why I am living in a country where female children, are required to take their clothes off in front of a male child in the name of therapeutic benefit to the male child, and if they do not consent and comply they are punished by exclusion from some of their education entitlement?

And that this is apparently because to do something even vaguely sensible like provide additional changing rooms and balance the rights of a male child with female ones, would traumatise a male by requiring them to face that there are limits to their transition?

Would someone please explain to me how this is not male supremacist batshit that has no place in the 21st century?

And while we're at it who exactly is monitoring the safeguarding and impact on the female children who are obediently taking off their clothes in front of male children to make those male children feel happy?

WTAF are those girls learning from this experience they're being encouraged in and praised for?

They can't, cos it is. What they can do is call you a transphobe, tell you your committing literal violence and try and obfuscate the issue with what they think are academic arguments which prove that night is day. It's a government endorsed shit show.

This is why I’m sending my youngest to a girls school next September.

(And if there is a single boy- not counting ‘transboys’ - in that school I’ll take it court)

I was thinking of the Welsh media. If it's written up in the Daily Mail I think Welsh Labour (who are the ones who should be taking notice) are likely to take the Hannah Blythyn approach and called the parents transphobes and endangering the lives if vulnerable people.

This sounds like a case for a legal challenge under the Equality Act. Trying to remember who the solicitors behind Allison Bailey and Maya Forstater were. They know employment law and may be able to offer half an hour's free legal advice.

Contact Legal Feminist, I bet they have a list of legal professionals interested in these cases!

in the name of therapeutic benefit to the male child

Which benefit is still theoretical, completely unproven to benefit the male child.

Not at all arguing against your point that even if it was proven to benefit the male child, female children shouldn't be used for that purpose, but even as it stands, there's no definitive benefit to any child.

The only people who benefit even a little bit from this are the adults who get to bask in their own righteousness.

Just when you think you've heard it all.

And then the manipulation. When they say 'exempted' they make it sound like a favour to the girls. They've actually been excluded . Don't you need to do something wrong to be excluded? Clearly, it's the boy who should be 'exempted'.

I have a teen DD in secondary school. My ears prick up everytime she mentions OneofSeveralTransChildren'sName and PE in the same sentence.

Anyone know which LGBT org ‘helped’ the school write this policy?

And I bet there's a lot of peer pressure on the poor girls not to express their discomfort. This makes me so angry. 🤬

I would also like to know.

And as an L person it makes me furiously angry that when I see 'LGBT org' involved it invariably means the pushing of an open, vigorous anti-female prejudice.

There is no excuse for professionals trained in safeguarding and in positions of responsibility in schools for enabling this sexism, prejudice and harm to female children. None. The male children's needs can always be met without requiring girls to take their clothes off in front of males or depriving female children of their education equality if they will not meekly comply. Wtf is anyone needing to actually say this in this century? How has anyone been so stupid as to enable this?

Seriously considering identifying as a lawyer myself and starting to take these cases because this is abysmal.

Where exactly in the 'being a woman' handbook does it state that part of being a female is stripping naked in front of other females?

I know plenty of women who don't want to do any such thing, not because they doubt that the other women are not genuinely women, but because they aren't comfortable undressing in front of other people.

How is a 'right' to make girls strip in front of you apparently something anyone is entitled to?

And which LGBT organisations are writing the new national trans guidance for schools on behalf of Welsh Government?

According to the LGBTQ+ Action Plan published this week, the Welsh Government intends to publish national trans guidance for schools by summer 2023. There has been no consultation about this, and it seems unlikely that there will be one before the stated publication date.

www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/pdf-versions/2023/2/2/1675767932/lgbtq-action-plan-wales-contents.pdf

Well, cultural and social norms relating to changing rooms vary and if you feel it's inappropriate for anyone to be expected to change into or out of sports gear in front of anyone else I'm sure you'll find people who'll agree with you. You can start a campaign and offer alternatives and I'll be interested to see it develop because I'm one of those people who has never enjoyed stripping off in public view.

But the OP's situation was about sex and this is the Sex and Gender forum and personally I would prefer it if we could discuss the topic in hand rather than taking a detour into an individual changing rooms debate. That would derail the thread, wouldn't it?

This is just crazy. I'm an adult and cos of my period I don't go to the gym for 7days even though my period is only 5 days. Then imagine if in the remaining 3weeks I have to change I front of men trying to wiggle their way into my changing room! I won't bother. How will girls feel about this?

I wonder if the Welsh Govt's dog will turn out to have eaten the Equality Impact assessment of this too?

And as established in a previous FoI request, it also ate all the minutes of all the meetings and all the emails that referred to it - the decision to commission it, who carried it out, the progress of it, the evidence gathered, the reporting back on it, how it impacted on decisions..... everything. But they definitely did one, miss. Honest.

Yes, and any evidence of translation into Welsh, too. You have to have been involved in a Welsh institution or organisation to understand how important and usually cumbersome the Welsh translation issue is and it always leaves a trail.

Is Wales becoming the Canada of the UK?

This is one of the first subjects which made me prick my ears up, a few years ago. The "advice" then was that any girl, who wasn't happy with it, could change in a single toilet, or a cupboard. What if most of them are brave enough to object? By the time they've finished changing, the lesson will be over.

What's wrong with making the pretend girl change in a single toilet, or a broom cupboard?

I mean, because realistically, they're not actually going to stop him playing netball and make him do rugby, with the other boys.