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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Well, I suppose this character really is sexless

44 replies

ErrolTheDragon · 08/02/2023 09:18

So should God (Christian version) be described in ungendered terms?

As an atheist, I'm inclined to say sure, why not, except it seems like just fashionable window-dressing on centuries of patriarchal misogyny.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/church-england-he-him-pronoun-gender-neutral-alternatives-7n0n0sddf?shareToken=2eb5cd2b2444f48391ae631f8c754b43

OP posts:
ControversialOpening · 08/02/2023 10:47

It makes you wonder - just how powerful is this new ideology to be able to influence and change anything said about God?! What's next 'the virgin birthing person'?

"Holy Mary, vagina-haver of god"

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 08/02/2023 11:25

Now singing The Beatles, Let it Be.

🎶 When I find myself in times of trouble, Birthing Unit comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
And in my hour of darkness
They is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it beeeeeeeeee 🎶

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 08/02/2023 11:26

God impregnated the Virgin Mary and so I of think it’s implied that God’s a bloke.
Some religions imagine a more female creator but I see men’s control over women as ‘baked in’ to the bible.

pattihews · 08/02/2023 11:26

Well, as the Christian god isn't human I think it should be called it. Or perhaps It. But of course the Christian brand rather relies on the idea of a father who cares really (honestly he does, in his own peculiar way) despite walking away and abandoning us to earthquakes and famine and genocide etc.

God — the original absent father.

Musomama1 · 08/02/2023 11:41

I think only God could be both sexes, so it makes sense to me and feels progressive.

Never liked the male thing anyway.

Unfortunately being GC I'm so triggered now by the term non-binary 🤣🤣 but in this instance I would have to get over that.

By the way, CoE, humans can only be one sex or the other, and gender weddings are of course same-sex weddings, which you recently voted against.

Fenlandia · 08/02/2023 11:51

Who is this for? It's not going to get many new young woke people packing the pews, and will likely upset many traditional, devout Christians. As PPs have said, unless this sort of change leads to greater acceptance of women and gay people within the church, then it is just the epitome of empty virtue signalling.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 08/02/2023 11:58

God — the original absent father.

🤣

Updated version:

God, the original absent ejaculator

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 08/02/2023 12:01

Fenlandia · 08/02/2023 11:51

Who is this for? It's not going to get many new young woke people packing the pews, and will likely upset many traditional, devout Christians. As PPs have said, unless this sort of change leads to greater acceptance of women and gay people within the church, then it is just the epitome of empty virtue signalling.

It’s hard not to interpret the CoE’s embracing of GenderWoo as an endorsement of transing away the gay.

ChateauMargaux · 08/02/2023 12:35

In theory I welcome the idea that the divine is both feminine and masculine and both female and male - though I feel more connected to the female divine.

I struggle with the idea that the church has decided to declare god as gender neutral, given the centuries of misogyny on which the church is built. Jack Holland's book on the history of misogyny has a lot to say on the subject.

I feel a huge sense of deep seated fury and anger about the oppression of women, especially in Ireland, where I come from, and I have a deep feeling that the divine female in Ireland was crushed under christianity, despite being very much a part of the movement in the early centuries when St Brigid and St Patrick were equally recognised in the 6th century AD. This year the Irish government have recognised Saint Brigid, the patroness of Ireland alongside Saint Patrick and given her a bank holiday in her name. It seems a small but significant step in recognising the equality of women and men but there is so much water under the bridge, it is impossible to turn back and accept that this wipes the slate clean.

Ingenieur · 08/02/2023 12:45

God, working in mysterious ways, surely has Xenopronouns?

pronoun.fandom.com/wiki/Xenopronouns

highame · 08/02/2023 12:46

No skin in the game either but have always loved religions, fascinating. I just pondered hymns and how they're going to handle that

The Lord/Lady's my sheep herder, I'll not want;
Ze makes me down to lie
In pastures green; ze leadeth me
The quiet waters by.

Now have a crack at Battle Hymn of the Republic and especially try and get rid of the toxic masculinity😂

Brefugee · 08/02/2023 12:49

i'm a 2nd waver. There was countless "god is black" graffiti when i was growing up. Often with a different writing underneath "yes, she is"

it is nothing new and it is ALWAYS worth discussing, IMO, even though I'm an atheist.

JarByTheDoor · 08/02/2023 13:10

It's nothing to do with me what pronouns some particular sect uses for their gods or what sexual unions they choose to bless. What is to do with me is the fact that by law their beliefs affect me, my government, my [nonexistent] kids' schooling etc.

It's interesting that ShireWifeofNigelFarage mentions transing away the gay à la Iran since that's also the only other country with places set aside in government for clerics. I'd much rather campaign for the C of E to be removed from its privileged place in public life and for Anglicans' opinions to be represented in government in exactly the same way everyone else's are i.e. via the ballot box, than to tacitly accept that it's okay we have a state religion as long as it's all lovely and inclusive and accepting. When people like Sandi Toksvig campaign at the C of E about things like gay marriage the implication is that it's okay that this church has influence over all of us, as long as it's made to have politically acceptable stances.

GCWorkNightmare · 08/02/2023 13:42

Has nobody seen Dogma? God is clearly female (and in the body of Alanis Morrissette).

Musomama1 · 08/02/2023 17:26

I think de sexing the idea of God is nothing new. But lately I wonder if the CoE wade their toes into the murk of gender woo to see what public opinion is

Apparently it would have an impact on scripture that relates to God as the 'father' and the reinterpretation of this word so they are unlikely to actually do anything - but this sounds familiar i.e. the 'intepretation' of that confusing term 'woman'.

nepeta · 08/02/2023 18:18

Wondering why the church worshiped the father and the son and not the mother and the daughter may have been what turned me into a feminist. This was when I was around six years old. Just seemed very odd to me.

On virgin Mary and all that: I was taught that it was the Holy Spirit in the trinity which got Mary pregnant, not God directly. But then the Holy Spirit certainly has no gender so everything becomes a mess.

Happylittlechicken · 08/02/2023 18:37

I nearly got kicked out of a group for suggesting that if god was so into free will etc (how they explained all the bad things in the world) why didn’t he give Mary free will to decide if she wanted to be pregnant or not.

Echobelly · 08/02/2023 18:41

I don't see any problem with using 'Our Creator' instead.

BaronMunchausen · 09/02/2023 10:50

I don't know about the Old Testament but all the words and pronouns for God (and Jesus) in the New testament are masculine.

Religion IS patriarchal. Refashioning masculine forms as generic (adelphoi is already 'translated' as 'brothers and sisters') doesn't reflect the sense and intentions of the original.

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