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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Brit Awards - BBC article on unfairness to women

19 replies

QuetzalTerfLus · 07/02/2023 07:07

I was pleased to see this article at #2 on BBC News’ Most Read this morning-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64538169

well done Shaznay Lewis for speaking up!

OP posts:
Musomama1 · 07/02/2023 07:49

Good for her.

I can't help but think that reinstating gendered categories will be seen as a step backwards and wonder what route they will take going forwards.

Who knows huh? The sad thing is, once these things go they may never return quite how they were. In this case dismantling a guaranteed avenue for female showcasing. It just felt right didn't it?

DameMaud · 07/02/2023 07:52

I'm going to steal her wonderful line when talking about this;

"Progressive ideas should benefit everyone."

Hoardasurass · 07/02/2023 07:56

So the brits say that they'll look at it but won't do anything because they need more evidence translation we need time to fake the evidence by making sure that there's a token women in each gender neutral award. I also love the typical defence of the women just weren't commercially good enough🤬

Beamur · 07/02/2023 08:22

Beautifully put by Shaznay.
The Brits are in a fix. If this category keeps getting dominated by men the complaints are going to keep being made. They are going to look stupid rather than progressive.
It's showcasing why women need their own categories.

bellac11 · 07/02/2023 08:26

The problem is that when people talk about this they keep using the word 'gender'. Its sex. They are sexed categories, not gender categories.

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2023 08:35

What has got me has been this:

In response to the criticism over the lack of women in this year’s major categories, a Brits spokesman said it was 'disappointing' but that 'we also have to recognise that 2022 saw fewer high profile women artists in cycle with major releases as was the case in 2021'.

Women's awards were started in response to the degree to which the industry is dominated by men. This in turn enabled female artists to get recognition and publicity which promoted them.

What happens in a male industry where you suddenly pull the rug out?

Dickheads. No women do not have equality in the industry. Not even remotely

picklemewalnuts · 07/02/2023 08:37

They should inaugurate a 'sexiest outfit' category. That would even up the playing field a bit. Wink

MadameSzyszkoBohusz · 07/02/2023 08:56

picklemewalnuts · 07/02/2023 08:37

They should inaugurate a 'sexiest outfit' category. That would even up the playing field a bit. Wink

Oh noooo, can you imagine what Sam Smith would come up with? 🤢

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 07/02/2023 08:59

Am bewildered that anyone considers George Ezra to be better than someone like Adele.

Fenlandia · 07/02/2023 09:27

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2023 08:35

What has got me has been this:

In response to the criticism over the lack of women in this year’s major categories, a Brits spokesman said it was 'disappointing' but that 'we also have to recognise that 2022 saw fewer high profile women artists in cycle with major releases as was the case in 2021'.

Women's awards were started in response to the degree to which the industry is dominated by men. This in turn enabled female artists to get recognition and publicity which promoted them.

What happens in a male industry where you suddenly pull the rug out?

Dickheads. No women do not have equality in the industry. Not even remotely

WTF sounds like "it's your own fault ladies for not releasing enough music in 2022"?! The charts are full of female artists.

Musomama1 · 07/02/2023 10:37

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2023 08:35

What has got me has been this:

In response to the criticism over the lack of women in this year’s major categories, a Brits spokesman said it was 'disappointing' but that 'we also have to recognise that 2022 saw fewer high profile women artists in cycle with major releases as was the case in 2021'.

Women's awards were started in response to the degree to which the industry is dominated by men. This in turn enabled female artists to get recognition and publicity which promoted them.

What happens in a male industry where you suddenly pull the rug out?

Dickheads. No women do not have equality in the industry. Not even remotely

That's really interesting. So Best Solo Artist had a guaranteed women's category because of less representation in the industry.

And decades later, this is how it still is.

So what is the response now considering they've got rid of the obvious sensible measure? Reinventing the wheel time the for the Brits.

Even if they guarantee one female spot on the shortlist, this is still way less than we had before and doesn't give female artists a parity.

elgreco · 07/02/2023 13:11

So the reason that the brits needed a women's category in the first place is now the reason women will be less likely to win the genderless category.

With every subsequent year there will be less female winners which will lead to less female representation which will lead to less female winners which will lead to.....

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 07/02/2023 13:29

What a great message this sends to young girls watching the Brits, that women don't win awards and have no place in the music industry, an industry that already objectifies women, they should be so proud.
The BBC has cheered on this whole thing and so this seems totally disingenuous.

nilsmousehammer · 07/02/2023 13:35

So the situation was originally unfair for women, due to male behaviour, dominance, greater importance, voice, representation, favouring.

It was remedied by specific categories to aid some equality for women.

Then special men got upset and didn't want women to have those categories.

So they were pandered to.

And now there's a bit of a problem for women's equality.

Gosh, how to fix it? Obvs it can only be fixed in ways that men feel happy about. So come on guys? What crumbs can you spare without pouting?

CharlieParley · 07/02/2023 14:13

The statement by the British is laughable. Calling for careful consideration and more evidence before they ensure that women are not disadvantaged by the changes made just highlights that they did no such thing when they decided to make the change in the first place.

No one working in the entertainment industry can be unaware that women are underrepresented at all levels of the music industry (as producers, composers and performers). That there are structural reasons for that underrepresentation. That the Grammys, who abolished the women's category a decade ago, have born out in stark numbers that this has led to women losing out. The statistics are there.

If they had stopped to consider whether pandering to a male artist whining about feeling left out may lead to female artists actually being left out, they wouldn't have been able to justify the change.

But now they need evidence to prove women are disadvantaged. There's an annual study published, a snapshot of the state of women in music in the US, which deep dives into this at every level of the music industry. The numbers are not even close. They could have looked at that, there's at least a decade's worth of annual reports. But no, clearly the British music industry must be superior to the US American one for we do not have such issues...well, there's none so blind as those who will not see.

CharlieParley · 07/02/2023 14:13

Statement by the Brits. Damn autocorrect.

nilsmousehammer · 07/02/2023 14:59

The statement by the British is laughable. Calling for careful consideration and more evidence before they ensure that women are not disadvantaged by the changes made just highlights that they did no such thing when they decided to make the change in the first place.

Totally agree. A man has a wail: everything's changed instantly and sod everything and everyone else.

Everyone points out a major issue to half the humans involved?

Well we'll need to gather a lot of evidence and think very carefully what we might do about that....

What's that thing where people with penises (or who have ever at any time owned penises) are treated as VIPs? While everyone obediently pretends sex doesn't exist?

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 07/02/2023 15:29

allowing men to ignore the existence of women results in men ignoring the existence of women. Oh what a totally unforeseen result. If only they'd been some sort of clue this sort of thing might happen - sorry some days sarcasm is all I've got left.

nilsmousehammer · 07/02/2023 17:35

But women have achieved equality!!! They don't need this stuff any more....

I know. Sarcasm and a kind of grimly amused frustration is mostly where I am too. This has all been a massive demonstration as to why women continue to need single sex spaces and provisions - because of the behaviour of men. Who get all indignant and butt-hurt when it's pointed out.

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