Survey - should men be in women's prisons?

[ArabellaScott]

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/01/31/should-transgender-women-offenders-be-sent-mens-or

'Women and men’s views are largely identical: 57% of men and 61% of women say this type of offender should go to a men’s prison, with only 14-15% saying they should go to a women’s prison.'

Ever more complex conditions are going to be put into these risk assessments.

If a man has had certain surgeries, and has not ever been found guilty of attacking a woman, then some people still think he should be put in a women's prison if he asks to be.

This still isn't really taking into account the views of women in prison, many of whom will still not want to share a cell or a shower with a man, no matter what surgery he's had and no matter what his conviction history.

This whole issue is really simply resolved by housing prisoners according to sex.

Interesting to note that men come out as generally more suspicious of the behaviours of other men, and less generous in believing that they should be in a women's space.

Pre op or self-iding transmen should be in women's prisons, and likewise transwomen in men's prisons. Males who have started gender reassignment can't go into men's prisons for their safety and can't go into women's prisons for women's safety. We probably need a national trans prison wing!

I found this disclaimer at the end of the article interesting -

'Gender reassignment surgery was described as follows to respondents: “Some transgender people have gender reassignment surgery. This is surgery by which a transgender person's physical attributes are altered to match the gender they identify with (e.g. breast and genital surgery).”

What it should have said, considerably more truthfully, is 'the majority of transgender people (95%) do not go through genital surgery. A larger percentage will have hormone treatment or breast surgery'.

Pre op transmen? You mean people born female?

See, this is where all the language footery really ends up causing trouble. Half the time people have no idea what other people actually mean.

Women are not able to use men's prisons regardless of identity, self definition or alteration of hormones or appearance - another point of disparity where TQ+ means in fact men and no parity for women. I think if I remember the reporting there is currently one, single female in the male estate. The MoJ has been clear that the risks to women is too great to consider this further. Which demonstrates sadly that sex does not go away, and neither does the unequal burden of it, regardless of transition.

Which makes it still crazier to try to pretend it does when violent men wish to be in the women's estate. And when the 'risk assessment' looks only at the needs and wishes of the man in question. There is no concern for their safety from women prisoners for obvious reasons.

Any men who would be in danger from other men in the male prison area currently housed, for their own safety, in separate units within the men's prison. This facility can be used for any transwomen prisoners, regardless of the degree of physical transition. There is no need and no excuse to put them in women's prisons.

Neither is there any need, in an already overburdened prison service, for specialist units for trans-identifying prisoners. Of either sex. The existing system has the facilities.

Yes. Of course the men's prison system is enormous compared to the tiny amount of provision for women.

So there would be far more capacity and ability to cater for various needs, including vulnerable prisoners, I would expect.

Proper facilities in both estates for vulnerable prisoners would also be greatly helped by proper funding in the system to deal with overcrowding, poor facilities, proper mental health care, better paid and supported staff, and dealing with the causes of the very high turn over of staff due to burn out, injury, trauma and breakdowns from what they experience and witness particularly self injury and suicide, and lack of support.

That would result in much better outcomes for both male and female vulnerable prisoners, than dumping the vulnerable men on the vulnerable women in overcrowded and poor conditions, and hoping somehow nothing too terrible happens.