News discussion on This Morning 10am

[CatNamedEaster]

Discussing NS interview and then moving onto the issue of safe spaces in general.

Its very very different to the odd times ive seen the trans debate mentioned on This Morning before.

The female journalist was talking about the way JK and feminists have been treated for standing up for womens rights, and there was none of the "what about trans rights" that I would have expected from Phil and Holly before.

I know lots of people on MN hate the programme but for the issue to be spoken about calmy and with common sense on it is really heartening I think.

It doesn't tend to be my thing but it is useful thing to notice thanks as a weather vane for which way the wind is blowing as it were.

I didn't see it, but I agree it's good that mainstream morning TV is finally covering this with some sense of responsibility and honesty.

BUT we cannot forget that Phil and Holly and their unquestioning acceptance of the ideology - the fawning interviews with TW and TRAs; the sneery, judgy treatment of anyone who did question (I remember an interview years ago with parents who had withdrawn their child from a primary school where gender ideology was being enthusiastically embraced) and Eamonn and Ruth, treating Posie with icy disgust while virtually bowing at India Willoughby's feet - THEY BEAR A PORTION OF THE BLAME FOR HOW FEMINISTS HAVE BEEN TREATED FOR STANDING UP FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

Some sort of acknowledgement of this is necessary. This faux-naive 'goodness me, how did this terrible situation arise?' narrative is simply not acceptable.

Yes, I thought she spoke very sensibly, Phil
& Holly didn’t argue against it for once.

Wondering who the female journalist was?

@Villagetoraiseachild It was the lady who knows lots about the royals (brain won’t work this morning to describe her better than that 🙈)

BUT we cannot forget that Phil and Holly and their unquestioning acceptance of the ideology

Yes, I remember when the parents of ''Britain's youngest trans child'' went on there. A 4yo girl (who had a twin brother) who was really a boy because she didn't like wearing her hair in pigtails, didn't like 'pretty shoes' and was interested in police officers and firefighters.

The presenters (think it was Phil and Holly) didn't say a thing about the sexist, regressive bollocks they were hearing, it was just the usual sickly fawning.

How are famous people going to save face when they realise they and everyone is basically terf-adjascent at heart?

I don't think the term will be embraced. I think there will be some desperate rebranding going on because the concept of "evil terf" will still have to exist, otherwise they'll all look like gullible idiots.

Perhaps it will be the F in TERF that is to blame? If feminists had reported their suddenly actually quite reasonable concerns in kinder language, the world would have listened earlier?

They can see the tide is turning and panic is setting in

Discovering that you've been advocating for male rapists to be housed in prison cells alongside women must be a bit of a shock - except for outliers to normal decency like Lisa Nandy who's always thought that's where male rapists belong.

Now they need to realise that they're also advocating for the Isla Bryson's of the world to be undressing alongside 12 year old girls in the pool changing rooms, have his bras fitted in M & S's lingerie changing rooms and sleep alongside ill women in hospital.

Hopefully enterprising journalists will start asking about Isla and women's safe spaces like this?

Yes it did look a bit like there was nothing they could say because of their previous treatment of people who've been on there before. It would have been lose lose for them to have too much of an opinion.
Agree that IF the tide does turn, all these people will have to reframe their 'mis'understanding of it all to avoid being destroyed.
There seems to be a bit of a narrative that "of course someone shouldnt be in a womens prison if they have committed that sort of crime" as if its about the crime, not the person's biology. I think they think that gets them off the hook about having too much of an opinion.

But there would never be a question of a violent woman NOT being in a womens prison...what I'd love to hear on a mainstream tv chat is someone saying that even if the crime is tax evasion or theft, a man shouldn't be in a womens prison. That would be very heartening 😉

I think this clip bears another airing. Sadly it cuts off just as prisons come into the discussion (🤔) but I wonder if Ruth has a little more understanding now about 'how it affects us all' when men identify as women, and not just India's mum, sister and 'hundreds of friends.'

Transwoman on This Morning

They will surely look back at some point and think why did we pander to this nonsense! In summary - a man wears a dress to a fancy dress party and likes it so much he decides to 'become a woman' then gets mightily annoyed because he is called 'Sir' not once, but twice on the train! Taking the piss doesn't even begin to cover it! I can't work out whether Holly and Phil are genuinely concerned or are trying not to laugh.

If there is a clip online of this could someone link it? Or at least know the name of the feminist talking?

Not found a clip online, but from the looks of this it was Camilla Tominey
twitter.com/thismorning/status/1620366833474748417

Yes that was her. She usually covers royal stuff on there.
It will be on itv x - its the first few minutes so you don't have to sit through the whole programme 😂.

Wonder if the Girl Guides have considered how they would've responded if Isla turned up as a volunteer?

I've just caught up with it on itv-x (thanks Cat!) and I agree that it's a significant step forward. Camilla Tominey has clearly been paying attention to this for a while and used the limited time available to put the main points across very clearly and unequivocally. Well done her. Holly managed to stay silent throughout, presumably so she could retain her rainbow credentials (she must have an eye on Lorraine Kelly's shoes as the ones she'd like to fill when she outgrows the role of nation's smiley sweetheart) and Phil assumed his 'thoughtful' face, as if whether to incarcerate violent rapists with vulnerable women was a real head-scratcher. Kudos to Camilla for having none of it.

Link here. I think you have to sit through the adverts, but once the programme starts you can inch forwards to 7 minutes in when they discuss this and show the Sturgeon clip.

www.itv.com/watch/this-morning/1a1960/2a6292a1022

That clip hasn't aged well. Especially in light off India's fall from grace as media friendly, poor feminine tw, to relentless JKR hectoring tweeter.

And the attempt at being pitiful and helpless just shows up all the stereotypical nonsense in all its glory.

Especially when contrasted with the rage, confidence, authority and strength of Posie Parker, who simultaneously 'out feminines' everyone there.

Yes, I think there are some people who are mostly useful as indicators. There's really no point directing arguments at them because they don't think rationally, only responsively and according to prevailing opinion.

So it's worth observing them but not worth expending energy on them.