Woman prisoner describes sharing space with males

ArabellaScott · 2023-01-29T17:08:02+00:00

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/ex-prisoner-shaking-fear-sharing-29075541 Content warning. '“He was in prison for domestic abuse against his female partner and yet here he was being allowed to intimidate women every day. “We were told his name was Laura and that we would need to call him by that name, while the murderer was called Alex. “I felt like if I was to misgender them it would be me who would be getting into trouble and possibly having my sentence lengthened. “We didn’t have showers in our cells and so we had to shower in the communal shower block, so women who were traumatised and vulnerable had to be naked and shower with men in their spaces. Related Articles “I know some female prisoners decided not to shower at all as a result because they feared they would be raped or assaulted.'

PriamFarrl · 29/01/2023 17:14

I’m so glad that ‘this never happens.’

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/01/2023 17:23

A dreadful story. It makes a change to hear women's voices in the mainstream instead of all those enabling the predators who've dominated discussions in recent years.

NotRightNowNo · 29/01/2023 18:18

The voice of the women affected! At last. We need more of this.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-64430756.amp

WhiteFire · 29/01/2023 18:39

Is Nicola going to stand in front of Amanda and tell her "checks notes" that she is "homophobic and racist"?

Stand by your beliefs and all that.

Original poster

ArabellaScott · 29/01/2023 19:09

The trouble is that women shouldn't bloody need to describe the reasons they don't want to share space with men.

You can look at the figures, take into account that most instances are not reported or recorded, and pretty much take it as read that many if not most women suffer some kind of harassment, abuse, assault, rape, domestic violence, in their lifetime.

We shouldn't have to spell it out.

OP posts:

nilsmousehammer · 29/01/2023 19:18

Why was Amanda and the other women required to validate two males' inner selves with their bodies?

By undressing in the presence of these violent males in the knowledge that these males were in prison for the severity of the assaults they had committed? Under threat of punishment for voicing distress or discomfort? To the point that women were too afraid to shower?

How is this not cruel and unusual punishment and a violation of these women's human rights? How is this not exactly the double punishment that Elizabeth Fry sought to remove from women 200 years ago?

caramac04 · 29/01/2023 19:41

The placing of these men in a women’s prison is incredibly disturbing and I cannot see how any sane person would sanction this.
If they had to be housed there,(I don’t think they did as they were not attempting to live as a woman), then surely they should be isolated from the women and why the hell were they allowed to parade their penis and balls in the shower when women were in there? This absolutely makes no sense to me at all.

JustWaking · 29/01/2023 19:49

I seem to remember that the prison service initially had transwomen showering separately from women. But a transwoman complained that it was discrimination.

Can't think why a man wanted to shower with lots of women in a communal shower, separated only by curtains.

Oh wait, I can. Most men want to do that. Although in the general population, most would obey the social contract and not to force it on unwilling women. But violent male prisoners aren't exactly known for their moral compass or for obeying the social contract. Hence being in prison

What is astounding is that the prison service acquiesced.

picklemewalnuts · 29/01/2023 19:53

It's like they've taken one step at a time down one of those logical puzzles where you end up agreeing that black is indeed white and up is down.

You can't work out how it happened, or where it went wrong, but this is where we are so it must be true!

ScrollingLeaves · 29/01/2023 20:35

That account is upsetting. Apparently an assessment was made that what those women would have to endure as a result of housing those two men was absolutely fine.

That decision was in itself a form of violence against those women.

nilsmousehammer · 29/01/2023 20:57

Willoughby has announced on twitter that Amanda is lying, and that Willoughby will give their house and liver if a non surgically transitioned male was permitted in the shower with women.

ScrollingLeaves · 30/01/2023 09:01

nilsmousehammer · Yesterday 20:57
Willoughby has announced on twitter that Amanda is lying, and that Willoughby will give their house and liver if a non surgically transitioned male was permitted in the shower with women.

Has there been any reply to IW on this?
Is it just going to stand that Amanda made up everything she said, I wonder?

Datun · 30/01/2023 09:15

nilsmousehammer · 29/01/2023 20:57

Willoughby has announced on twitter that Amanda is lying, and that Willoughby will give their house and liver if a non surgically transitioned male was permitted in the shower with women.

Neatly demonstrating that a) Willoughby doesn't think the person is a woman at all and b) it's sooo bad as to be unbelievable.

Plus Willoughby's followers saying she was only scared and intimidated, not actually assaulted, so what's the problem.

Ugh.

Original poster

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 09:30

I don't know if Amanda reads this site, but I would be happy to contribute to a fund, should she wish to take legal action.

OP posts:

RoyalCorgi · 30/01/2023 09:54

Plus Willoughby's followers saying she was only scared and intimidated, not actually assaulted, so what's the problem.

I saw that. When I read Twitter I absolutely despair of humanity, but I have to remind myself that these people are not representative.

DarkDayforMN · 30/01/2023 10:05

Datun · 30/01/2023 09:15

Neatly demonstrating that a) Willoughby doesn't think the person is a woman at all and b) it's sooo bad as to be unbelievable.

Plus Willoughby's followers saying she was only scared and intimidated, not actually assaulted, so what's the problem.

Ugh.

Show quote history

That didn't happen,
and if it did, it wasn't that bad,
and if it was, it's not a big deal...

Anyone moved on to "she deserved to feel intimidated because she's transphobic" yet?

nilsmousehammer · 30/01/2023 10:06

RoyalCorgi · 30/01/2023 09:54

Plus Willoughby's followers saying she was only scared and intimidated, not actually assaulted, so what's the problem.

I saw that. When I read Twitter I absolutely despair of humanity, but I have to remind myself that these people are not representative.

And this illustrates the utter contempt for the needs, feelings and experiences of females.

These are not people who should be involved in making policy; it is rather like asking the BNP to set policy for BAME people.

PerilousErection · 30/01/2023 10:08

There's lots of "well nothing actually happened did it" and "you didn't actually get raped so it doesn't matter" type responses on Twitter. Imagine thinking like that. Imagine hearing one women's account of being terrified and humiliated and dismissing it?

TheABC · 30/01/2023 10:15

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 09:30

I don't know if Amanda reads this site, but I would be happy to contribute to a fund, should she wish to take legal action.

I don't know about Scotland, but it's been tried in England and the judge decided it's A-OK.

You need to scroll halfway down the page, but the judgement was delivered in. 2021.

fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/

Unbelievable, but there we are. Women are not permitted dignity, privacy or freedom from the fear of rape.

Since then, I have been writing in to the MoJ and my own MP about this issue. In the last response (this month) , they said they were strengthening the rules so "no transwoman who commits sexual offences or retains their birth genitalia will be housed with women." They then talked about "case-by-case exemptions" and further guidance due out this year.

IDK what will happen in Scotland, but the Tories are watching this issue develop carefully.

Datun · 30/01/2023 10:20

DarkDayforMN · 30/01/2023 10:05

That didn't happen,
and if it did, it wasn't that bad,
and if it was, it's not a big deal...

Anyone moved on to "she deserved to feel intimidated because she's transphobic" yet?

Show quote history

They were this close to saying she deserved it, because she'd committed crimes.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/01/2023 10:25

Datun · 30/01/2023 10:20

They were this close to saying she deserved it, because she'd committed crimes.

Show quote history

That’s Jane Face’s position as I recall

apparently women prisoners ‘aren’t very nice people’

Original poster

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 10:45

TheABC · 30/01/2023 10:15

I don't know about Scotland, but it's been tried in England and the judge decided it's A-OK.

You need to scroll halfway down the page, but the judgement was delivered in. 2021.

fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/

Unbelievable, but there we are. Women are not permitted dignity, privacy or freedom from the fear of rape.

Since then, I have been writing in to the MoJ and my own MP about this issue. In the last response (this month) , they said they were strengthening the rules so "no transwoman who commits sexual offences or retains their birth genitalia will be housed with women." They then talked about "case-by-case exemptions" and further guidance due out this year.

IDK what will happen in Scotland, but the Tories are watching this issue develop carefully.

Show quote history

I think that was a JR to discuss whether the law supported men in women's prisons, and the MoJ/court ended up saying 'yes, the law supports this although it's mad; what we need is for individuals to sue'.

Paraphrasing.

OP posts:

ScrollingLeaves · 30/01/2023 10:49

TheABC · Today 10:15

I don't know about Scotland, but it's been tried in England and the judge decided it's A-OK.

You need to scroll halfway down the page, but the judgement was delivered in. 2021.
fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/
Unbelievable, but there we are. Women are not permitted dignity, privacy or freedom from the fear of rape.

Since then, I have been writing in to the MoJ and my own MP about this issue. In the last response (this month) , they said they were strengthening the rules so "no transwoman who commits sexual offences or retains their birth genitalia will be housed with women." They then talked about "case-by-case exemptions" and further guidance due out this year.

IDK what will happen in Scotland, but the Tories are watching this issue develop carefully.

Re; “no transwoman who commits sexual offences or retains their birth genitalia will be housed with women."

By this do they also mean that transwomen can be housed in a women’s prison so long as they have not committed a sexual offence, or, if they have committed a sexual offence, but have had surgery?

Paris Green raped a man with a rolling pin, tortured and killed him. Now they are being taken for private surgery. Is this supposed to make Paris safe according to that criteria I wonder?

Even when men have gender re-assignment surgery and hormones they will still have male offending patterns. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

I think it is time to set up safe spaces for transwomen prisoners, but separate from women.

TheABC · 30/01/2023 10:49

@ArabellaScott, yep. This is one of those times when you would assume the Equality Act exemptions should kick in...but don't.

MargaritaRita · 30/01/2023 11:07

Adult human females are so vulnerable to the rules of men - and women like NS.